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Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

community.frame.work

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Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#61

Post by seanhunter »

yndoendo wrote: post #49

According to the specs. The keyboard is running QMK on a RP2040. Does anyone know if this will be programmable like quality mechanical keyboards? One thing missing from all high-end laptops is the ability to program the key mapping at firmware level so one does not have to re-configure the OS. Caps lock is such a useless and easily accessible key.

qmk keyboard firmware is awesome. You can do some incredible things involving toggling different layers, chords, different mappings if you hold vs tap a key, macros, all kinds of stuff. For an example of a qmk feature (that I don't actually use in my maps but it gives you an idea of the art of the possible) there is the "Space cadet shift" https://docs.qmk.fm/#/feature_space_cadet

Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#62

Post by zmk5 »

washadjeffmad wrote: post #51
zmk5 wrote: post #3

Honestly, it was much cheaper than I had assumed it would be. A pre-built "performance" version starts at $1,699 (Ryzen 7 7840HS) with 16GB RAM and 512GB SSD. Compare that to the entry 16 inch MacBook Pro at $2499. The "overkill" system with a Ryzen 9 7940HS, 32GB RAM and 1TB SSD is $2099. A pseudo comparison to the 16 inch MacBook Pro with M2 Pro, 32GB RAM and a 1TB SSD is $3099. Also these systems are cheaper if do…

Not being snarky or anything, but do you have easy access to broadband internet where you are, or do you live in a locale that prohibits VPN? It turned out more effective for me to buy a Chromebook and build a remote workstation to do actual work from, with the added benefit that I don't care if my Chromebook is lost or stolen because it doesn't store any data and costs less than a screen replacement ( I also wasn't…

No worries habibi. Your post isn't snarky and I get where you are coming from with what you wrote. I was more commenting on my expectations of the price given that this is a (relatively) new company on a larger form factor that has a lot of interchangeable parts, external GPU, etc.

This laptop isn't personally for me but I can see why people would like it. Also my workflow requires a lot of GUI applications for simulating and visualizing robotic movement and that is incredibly hard with ChromeOS or macOS.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#66

Post by nrp »

pentagrama wrote: post #64

Someone knows why they jump from Framework Laptop 13 to 16? And how this product naming will evolve?

The number reflects the screen size (rounded down). Framework Laptop 13 is 13.5". Framework Laptop 16 is 16". Both product lines are continuing in parallel.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#68

Post by theshrike79 »

stavros wrote: post #39
theshrike79 wrote: post #7

...and still not available in the Nordics. I'm still waiting here, money in hand, Framework. Could you please let me give it to you? (Directly, I don't want to use a dropshipping middleman)

I don't understand why they ship to Germany and not in all of the EU. Surely it's as easy as telling the courier to take it a bit farther? Maybe it's related to VAT? I can't imagine that their payment processor won't handle that for them, though.

If they pay the VAT to any EU country, they don’t need to pay it again.

I often order stuff from Germany because their VAT for computer stuff is lower than here.

Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#69

Post by neilv »

happy-dude wrote: post #25
neilv wrote: post #6

If they get a keyboard option with proper TrackPoint (including the design and positioning of the buttons), they can convert some ThinkPad devotees.

System76's next flagship, "Virgo," will be in-house designed and has a trackpoint keyboard with a layout will be similar to their line of Launch keyboards [1]. They've been teasing their Virgo prototype [2] [3] [4] on their social media feeds. [1] https://system76.com/accessories/launch [2] https://fosstodon.org/@carlrichell/110571781656976874 [3] https://fosstodon.org/@soller/110442466523846236 [4] https://fosstodon…

This is exciting.

Execution is everything, including the buttons. Someone designing this might also want to look at the Trackpoint buttons from before Lenovo switched to flat keyboards, and see the tactile merits of that (even when combined with flat keyboards).

Re: Framework Laptop 16 pre-orders are now open

#70

Post by trashcanman »

Rebelgecko wrote: post #56
trashcanman wrote: post #11

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No compare it to the MBA 15 w 512GB SSD and 16GB RAM upgrades and the 70W charger from their educational store + $150 gift card offer. $1575 inc Cali tax

What's the comparison look like with 2TB of storage? And maybe a bit more RAM (I don't think MBAs let you upgrade after purchase so buying a 512GB machine seems shortsighted for a lot of use cases unless all your development is in the cloud)

The storage and memory upgrades are expensive and also have a penalty in terms of power. Memory draws the same current regardless of if it’s being used and that is significant. Unified memory is also very different, has much higher bandwidth than RAM and lower latency. You can’t compare unified memory with RAM.

As far as the SSD, the base option comes with one 256GB NAND flash IC, where if you upgrade to 512GB they have to add a second. That matters because adding a second means you double the IO bandwidth using their current design. It’s something like 3500 vs 7500 MB/s. If you add more NAND modules you also scale up the IO speed further but the difference between 3500 and 7500 is significant for all workloads where above that you probably won’t see a gain except in niche applications like video editing, assuming you have the complimentary processing power and unified memory to utilize that throughput. For storage, Apple provides 2TB cloud service for $10/mo and these have wifi 6E so it’s cheaper to use the cloud than buy the storage, assuming it’s not working storage, and safer too.

Also, upgrades on Apple products hold their market value very poorly. The M2 studio just came out and maxed out M1 units are on sale NIB at 1/4 price of retail from 3 months ago, which is not at all a true quantification of performance since the M2 is only what 15-20% faster.

So after quite some research for the MBA 15; 16GB + 512GB + 70W adapter is the optimum for power draw, performance, cost and value preservation.

Overall, it seems the best value strategy with Apple products is to take the first upgrade for memory and storage and leave it at that. You can then resell every year and recoup 60% and upgrade to the latest w a new battery. Apple is actually very cheap after the first investment considering the productivity and time saving benefits, and you can’t steal an Apple device. Just don’t drop it

Also if you are considering big upgrades, compare the cost to just buying two base units as the base units are way closer to the manufacturing cost. Often there is more benefit to having two expendable units and they will hold their resale value better.

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