Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity • Hacker News Board

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#141

Post by aduffy » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

gotoeleven wrote: post #32

gnicholas wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You can get remote tutors to teach your kid skills, yes. However, if your goal is to have your kid advance to higher math classes, it isn't enough to just know the skills. Schools erect extreme barriers to advancement (Palo Alto USD has been successfully sued on this point [1]), so what students really need is to enroll in outside courses that are certified replacements in order to get credit. Finding out about which…

The article you linked is incredibly confusing. I assume the issue is, which is typical of any advanced courses in school districts where helicopter tiger moms live, that little billy didn't qualify for the advanced math course because he's not smart enough but mom knows he's actually a genius. The pressure to let in little billy builds and builds until the districts relent and fill the classes with buffoons and the…

This article is better https://www.paloaltoonline.com/news/2023/03/03/judge-rules-h...

The crux is that many students would take the 9th grade math course via private courses to then jump ahead a year or two when they get to the high school. The school tried to prevent people from doing this and the parents sued.

I went to this high school ~10 years ago and at the time a handful of kids every year would do this. I'd imagine it's much higher now though.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#142

Post by tapatio » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

wolpoli wrote: post #72

jedmeyers wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people in positions of power are currently obsessed with achieving equality of outcomes (aka equity) and dumbing down to the lowest common denominator is an only working way to achieve that goal for large groups of people.

Are we going to see a transition to a pure pass/fail grading system then?

That might not be a bad idea. But it still doesn't solve the problem of some people learning/advancing quicker than others.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#143

Post by dealuromanet » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

If someone is blocking a child from learning more and moving faster than others because of “equity”…then some school districts need to start firing some bureaucrats. Take away teaching licenses if someone is unwilling to uphold an oath to do their best with each student even if it means some students are smarter and faster than others. You cannot escape reality. You will not stunt the brightest in the name of this false god you call equity. Harrison Bergeron is a dystopia, not a training manual.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#144

Post by stale2002 » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

eitally wrote: post #64

brightball wrote: post #19

Stuff like this is why I will remain a proponent for true vouchers for the rest of my life. No parent should be stuck without options when educational governance goes sideways like this. Pull your kid. Find them a school that gives them the greatest opportunity to succeed and use the funds earmarked for their education to ensure they receive it. Currently, options are restricted to parents who can afford to move to a…

I don't completely disagree with you, but where's the incentive for a government to give you vouchers to spend on non-governmental education, directly taking away funding from the schools the same government is responsible for managing? If it was a different pool of money, I get it, but -- speaking specifically about the Bay Area -- one of the reasons public schools have suffered is because of attrition toward paroch…

> but where's the incentive for a government

The incentive is because it saves the government money, and educated the student better.

If costs the government 20k per year to educate 1 child, and a private school can do a better job of it, for 15k, then the government saves money by having the private school do it instead.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#145

Post by RavingGoat » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

gjsman-1000 wrote: post #94

thebooktocome wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

Well, then I hate to tell you how bad public education is then. It is estimated that about 10% of public school students will receive sexual abuse from a teacher or authority at some point in their education. https://slate.com/news-and-politics/2012/02/is-sexual-abuse-... This was also backed by the US Department of Education in 2004. Since then they've been very hesitant to revisit the issue. https://files.eric.ed.g…

You're going to really hate when you look up how much sexual abuse there is in private schools then.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#146

Post by pierat » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:27 PM UTC

LexiMax wrote: post #55

jdminhbg wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm for vouchers because I don't think I should have to pay with my taxes for religious indoctrination masquerading as public education.

Please elaborate on your equivocation. On first glance, you're comparing apples and oranges, and it doesn't make much sense.

[flagged]

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#147

Post by gadders » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:27 PM UTC

okeuro49 wrote: post #38

scarmig wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There's the theory that, by forcing the kids with the most engaged parents to go to schools with the kids of less engaged parents, the engaged parents will drive school districts to implement good educational policies. In reality, though, that doesn't seem to have worked. School board elections have very low turnout usually, and the people elected to them are disproportionately ideologues who treat engaged parents wi…

I agree, and particularly this part > There's the theory that, by forcing the kids with the most engaged parents to go to schools with the kids of less engaged parents is really rough on the kids of engaged parents, forcing them to be responsible for "fixing" systems that they didn't create. In the UK, we used to have "grammar schools" that selected on ability based on a standardised test. They were responsible for m…

Grammar schools do still exist in a few hold-out counties like Kent.

One thing that was repealed by the last Labour government was the Assisted Places Scheme [1]. If you scored highly enough the government would pay for a child to go to private school.

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Assisted_Places_Scheme

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#148

Post by bigbacaloa » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:27 PM UTC

misterbishop wrote: post #125

This just is a total misunderstanding of what's being proposed, and a hamfisted excuse to dress up reactionary stupidity as a defense of "Math". The changes aren't "refusing to teach kids math", they are a better approach to math. Modern approaches emphasize number sense (aka actual understanding) over formulas. Algebra has historically been a kind of gatekeeping in middle school between kids who plug in the formulas…

It's moronic. Source: I'm a university math professor with a hell of a lot more experience teaching math well than you have.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#149

Post by zzleeper » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:27 PM UTC

cauch wrote: post #89

The author says > The idea that offering children fewer educational resources through the public school system will help the poor kids catch up with rich ones, or help the Black kids catch up with the White and Asian ones, is unsupported by any available evidence of which I am aware. I was wondering if some people are aware of studies supporting this strategy. I could try to dig them up, but I remember few studies de…

But then engaged parents will take their kids to Kumon, and rich parents will take their kids to private school.

Their kids will then mop the floor against all other kids, including engaged kids without engaged parents, that would have benefited from more advanced classes. Is that equality?

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#150

Post by insanitybit » Tue, Jul 18, 2023, 5:27 PM UTC

brightball wrote: post #19

Stuff like this is why I will remain a proponent for true vouchers for the rest of my life. No parent should be stuck without options when educational governance goes sideways like this. Pull your kid. Find them a school that gives them the greatest opportunity to succeed and use the funds earmarked for their education to ensure they receive it. Currently, options are restricted to parents who can afford to move to a…

At least in NYC the DOE has to at least subsidize your private school if you show that your child has needs that require that school.