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Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

noahpinion.blog

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Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a good case for vouchers. Instead, kids with engaged parents will flee to better schools. The other parents will either follow, growing the new school and model, or the other school will adapt in order to retain students. Engaged parents are your early adopters. Without vouchers, most people can’t even afford to enter the market.

One of the purposes of public education is also assimilating children into the shared values of society. In the US this has been forgotten despite guys like Jefferson talking about this exact thing. The free market can be good at optimizing for certain outcomes, but I don't think you're going to get a lot of buy in with the current political climate being what it is, and a lack of consensus around what kind of outcom…

Yeah, I'm OK paying taxes to get to live in a society with universally-available (mostly) fee-free primary and secondary education that aspires to some set of standards.

I'm not OK paying taxes to help Bobby Baptist send his kids to Jesus Is Lord Day School. Or kick in to rich parents' budget for Phillips Exeter. If we must have vouchers, let people keep their own tax money that would have gone to schools and use that for the vouchers. I'm not interested in handing people my cash to fund private education. I'm interested in having a public education system. That, I'll pay taxes for.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#82

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That’s a good case for vouchers. Instead, kids with engaged parents will flee to better schools. The other parents will either follow, growing the new school and model, or the other school will adapt in order to retain students. Engaged parents are your early adopters. Without vouchers, most people can’t even afford to enter the market.

One of the purposes of public education is also assimilating children into the shared values of society. In the US this has been forgotten despite guys like Jefferson talking about this exact thing. The free market can be good at optimizing for certain outcomes, but I don't think you're going to get a lot of buy in with the current political climate being what it is, and a lack of consensus around what kind of outcom…

> One of the purposes of public education is also assimilating children into the shared values of society.

From what I have observed of the US's education system, the problem is that the public education system is assimilating children into values that are _not_ shared by society nor their parents.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#83

> Guess what? Children are educable. If you invest the resources of the state in poor kids and underrepresented minorities, they will learn. It is shocking to me that this has to be said. What in the world...

I mean... It's not entirely "true"

Some kids are educatable. Some are not. (and this also depends on subject and other factors)

That's true across all races, classes etc.

I say this because I actually think the biggest issue in education is that we waste resources on kids who are not educable and hold back whole classes for the one kid who refuses. This, and 101 other issues stem from that policy. A big part of what parents get at private schools or schools in nicer neighbourhoods is fewer kids holding the class up.

We should be assessing schools on how many kids get As and go to college. Instead we assess schools on how many kids pass or attend. So schools spend their time and energy dragging truants into classes and turning Ds into Cs. Anyone trying hard is just ignored, there is no news story, reward etc for getting a B kid to get an A etc...

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#84

Stuff like this is why I will remain a proponent for true vouchers for the rest of my life. No parent should be stuck without options when educational governance goes sideways like this. Pull your kid. Find them a school that gives them the greatest opportunity to succeed and use the funds earmarked for their education to ensure they receive it. Currently, options are restricted to parents who can afford to move to a…

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> I’m against vouchers because I don’t think I should have to pay with my taxes for religious indoctrination masquerading as private education.

Uh huh. And if you are a homeschooler, or go to private school, you are taxed right now to pay for secular indoctrination masquerading as public education. /s

But seriously, by this logic, what is the justification for using taxes paid by people who don't attend public school, to fund the public schools?

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I hear that line a lot, yet many of the best schools are religious schools. It’s one thing if you’re forced into through zoning. It’s an entirely different picture if it’s a choice of parents.

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Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#86

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

I'm for vouchers because I don't think I should have to pay with my taxes for religious indoctrination masquerading as public education.

100% this. I even went to catholic school 7-12th grade.

It was in no way a superior product like they want you to believe anyway. It was obvious in college that I had inferior math and science education, and I was considered a high performer in my high school!

They even turned me off religion completely, so fail on all counts.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#87

Stuff like this is why I will remain a proponent for true vouchers for the rest of my life. No parent should be stuck without options when educational governance goes sideways like this. Pull your kid. Find them a school that gives them the greatest opportunity to succeed and use the funds earmarked for their education to ensure they receive it. Currently, options are restricted to parents who can afford to move to a…

Charter school vouchers are a corrupt way to siphon off public funds.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#89
The author says

> The idea that offering children fewer educational resources through the public school system will help the poor kids catch up with rich ones, or help the Black kids catch up with the White and Asian ones, is unsupported by any available evidence of which I am aware.

I was wondering if some people are aware of studies supporting this strategy.

I could try to dig them up, but I remember few studies demonstrating that school success is more correlated to the socio-economical situation of the parent than to the child intrinsic capacities (I think one usual method is to compare success of twins adopted in different families to remove the naive argument "higher socio-economical situation means that these people are intrinsically smarter").

If it is the case, while avoiding the privileged ones to run ahead is not ideal, the alternative of doing nothing is even worse (which is in practice what a lot of people criticizing this measure prone: they did not have any plan to change anything before the subject was introduced).

I think that the idea is not to "dumb down" the kids, but to have a goal that everyone can achieve instead of a goal that is impossible to achieve for some of the poor kids anyway. See under this lens, the proposal makes more sense: the lectures are given at the NORMAL pace, without assuming that extra learning is made at home while it is known that this extra learning is impossible to do for some. A bit like if your professor was saying "we have an exam on chapters 1, 2, 3 and 4, I will tell you the chapters 1 and 3, the chapters 2 and 4 are in the books but I'm going to give this book only to some students and not other". If a professor does that, people will obviously say that it is stupid, that the professor should teach chapters 1 and 2 to everyone and then do a test on chapters 1 and 2, and nobody will pretend that this is "dumbying down" the students.

Re: Refusing to teach kids math will not improve equity

#90

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm for vouchers because I don't think I should have to pay with my taxes for religious indoctrination masquerading as public education.

I'm sure it's different in other places, but around here the only alternative school in town is run by an organized religion. Come to think of it, that's also true of the next town. Are the voucher people envisaging some eduVC funding source that allows me to spin up a school to complete with the legacy one?

Almost all voucher proponents want them for religious schools - your observation is a feature for them, not a bug.
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