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Britain Is a Developing Country

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Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#71

Post by Georgelemental »

aetherson wrote: post #44
crop_rotation wrote: post #6

Does the UK have anything going for it? It is very hard for me to see the UK having a better quality of life in future than they had in the past. Not being part of the EU means they will mostly be squeezed in trade negotiations. And the UK does not have any industry going for it, so sooner or later the living standards would catch up with the rest of the developing world at the middle.

This seems like a deeply off-the-wall take. Why would the UKs living standards increase? Because the world continues to get richer. Is the UK going to regress to developing world status? That's a heck of a claim. Has any country that was among the richest in the world regressed to developing nation status? This is supposed to happen on the basis of being marginally disadvantaged in trade negotiations? Get real. This…

TFR 1.53 and falling fast: https://www.statista.com/statistics/284042/fertility-rate-in...

I don't see how you propose to maintain the same level of prosperity when fewer productive workers need to support more unproductive seniors.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#72

Post by glcheetham »

tommypalm wrote: post #26
spenczar5 wrote: post #23

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Top UK universities are still globally elite. I don’t know how important that is.

But most people in the UK can afford to go to them, which is maybe by design.

Uni is capped at £9000 a year and is free in Scotland

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#73

Post by twixfel »

tinktank wrote: post #22
madeofpalk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to where? It's a large-ish, English speaking country, with plenty of other countries nearby, that isn't North America.

The rest of the G8 I would presume.

It's not the worst country in the G8 for immigrants at least (if we are considering where one might like to move to). The UK for all its (countless) faults is still a far more welcoming place to immigrants than the likes of, for example, Germany.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#74

Post by LatteLazy »

jstx1 wrote: post #17
iLoveOncall wrote: post #9

Having lived in multiple western EU countries and in the US, and now living in the UK, I can say that it's not developing, it's regressing. It is baffling how bad everything is, from public services (8 months of average waiting time in the NHS for something as benign as a lumbar puncture) to worker's rights (it's literally worse than the US). And now they of course committed economic suicide with the Brexit. I simply…

> worker's rights (it's literally worse than the US) This seems very incorrect given that the UK has stricter laws around dismissal (the bar for losing your job is much higher), better minimum wage laws, more legally mandated holidays per year, paid time off for sickness, parental pay etc. - very basic things that the US doesn't have, at least not uniformly across states and industries.

FYI, In the UK you cannot go to an employment tribunal unless you worked at a company for 2 years (except if you are explicitly fired for racist or sexist reasons). So for the vast majority of workers, there is no actual difference between the UK and "at will" hire.

https://www.gov.uk/dismissal/what-to-do-if-youre-dismissed#:...

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#75

Post by mhh__ »

barry-cotter wrote: post #2

> the UK is now a lot more like Poland than it is like the United States in terms of the kinds of growth it needs to do – driven by improved use of existing technology and inputs, and accumulation of capital, rather than driven primarily by technological advancement. With the exception of a few sectors like AI, we are so far behind the frontier in terms of economic development that worrying about technological progre…

British businesses are not very productive, technology is not a bad way to improve that.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#76

Post by iLoveOncall »

jstx1 wrote: post #17
iLoveOncall wrote: post #9

Having lived in multiple western EU countries and in the US, and now living in the UK, I can say that it's not developing, it's regressing. It is baffling how bad everything is, from public services (8 months of average waiting time in the NHS for something as benign as a lumbar puncture) to worker's rights (it's literally worse than the US). And now they of course committed economic suicide with the Brexit. I simply…

> worker's rights (it's literally worse than the US) This seems very incorrect given that the UK has stricter laws around dismissal (the bar for losing your job is much higher), better minimum wage laws, more legally mandated holidays per year, paid time off for sickness, parental pay etc. - very basic things that the US doesn't have, at least not uniformly across states and industries.

Under two years of employment, which is the majority nowadays, you can essentially be fired at will.

The rest is true, but a absolutely major one that is missing in the UK is unemployment benefits. If you lose your job you basically have no income at all.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#77

Post by Georgelemental »

walthamstow wrote: post #47
crop_rotation wrote: post #6

Does the UK have anything going for it? It is very hard for me to see the UK having a better quality of life in future than they had in the past. Not being part of the EU means they will mostly be squeezed in trade negotiations. And the UK does not have any industry going for it, so sooner or later the living standards would catch up with the rest of the developing world at the middle.

The past UK standard of living was based on pillaging the colonies, then after divestment of Empire it was briefly propped up in the 80s by North Sea oil and in the 00s by financial deregulation. No shit we're not going to have the same standard of living as the past.

And how did the UK acquire the strength needed to take those colonies? Would-be conquerors are a dime a dozen, empires as successful as the British not so much

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#78

Post by skippyboxedhero »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #9

Having lived in multiple western EU countries and in the US, and now living in the UK, I can say that it's not developing, it's regressing. It is baffling how bad everything is, from public services (8 months of average waiting time in the NHS for something as benign as a lumbar puncture) to worker's rights (it's literally worse than the US). And now they of course committed economic suicide with the Brexit. I simply…

The problem with the NHS is largely political. If you consider the structure of the NHS within civil/political society, it is clear why reform has been challenging.

The Tories are, for obvious reasons, totally unable to reform it. Labour are willing to do so but are inhibited by the fact that the vast majority of funding comes from unions who oppose any reform.

Worker's rights aren't "worse" than the US. It also depends what you mean, worker's rights in Denmark are "worse" than the US too...that isn't necessarily a bad thing if the system works. One of the biggest issues in the UK is that businesses are nervous about hiring people at all because firing people opens you up to virtually unlimited liability...I don't think this is a good thing, 20% of the UK's adult population are economically inactive.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#79

Post by switch007 »

secondcoming wrote: post #34
crop_rotation wrote: post #6

Does the UK have anything going for it? It is very hard for me to see the UK having a better quality of life in future than they had in the past. Not being part of the EU means they will mostly be squeezed in trade negotiations. And the UK does not have any industry going for it, so sooner or later the living standards would catch up with the rest of the developing world at the middle.

It must do since people are risking their lives to get here. It has problems for sure, but other EU countries have the same problems. Seeing the continental Europe is currently being baked dry, I'm kind of glad that the weather in Scotland is miserable.

By that measure it’s just somewhere someone from a devastatingly bad/troubled country wants to come to. That’s a low bar.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#80

Post by iLoveOncall »

anyoneamous wrote: post #40
iLoveOncall wrote: post #9

Having lived in multiple western EU countries and in the US, and now living in the UK, I can say that it's not developing, it's regressing. It is baffling how bad everything is, from public services (8 months of average waiting time in the NHS for something as benign as a lumbar puncture) to worker's rights (it's literally worse than the US). And now they of course committed economic suicide with the Brexit. I simply…

> I simply do not understand how anyone can think that the UK is a first-world country if they have ever lived in a real one before. While I am fully on board with the sentiment that we are circling the drain, can you be more specific about where is actually better? I'm interested both from the perspective of potential emigration, but also trying to be rational rather than sensationalist - if I'm stuck here, I want a…

I lived in France, Luxembourg and the US, compared to the UK all feel like if you stepped 100 years in the future, especially Luxembourg.

I didn't experience much of the social services in the US so I won't expand on them, but in Luxembourg and France you get world class healthcare for free or very cheap (even for foreigners) in a timely manner, you get years of unemployment benefits, public transportation is better and cheaper (free in LU), transportation overall is better and cheaper (UK trains are notoriously horrible), etc.

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