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The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

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Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#681

Post by lukas099 »

rafaelero wrote: post #170
jakewins wrote: post #161

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t this assuming people stay in fixed “compartments” over their lifetime? My experience with social safety nets in EU is that they have been there when I’ve needed them - when I was a poor student, when I was sick — and now that I’m in a different life phase I pay that forward Your math makes sense at any given instant, but who is on what side changes if you view it over time

Take a look at net contribution to Danish welfare state over time. https://www.economist.com/sites/default/files/images/print-e...

The immigrants will have children that will be better-acclimated and contribute more, no?

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#682

Post by cman1444 »

jfim wrote: post #313
ilikehurdles wrote: post #291

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What piece of the CPI adjustment formula are you arguing is so flawed that is negates any "real" gains of wages? And why do you believe the markets haven't caught on and started following a better metric? To bring things back a bit, the argument was that > housing and other costs like childcare have increased astronomically during that period negating any real gains Yet, gruez is downvoted while citing CPI-adjusted w…

The CPI only includes OER (owner equivalent rent), not housing prices. OER is also a lagging indicator due to it being calculated on current rental expenses, not market rate rents (eg. when people move and their rental expenses get adjusted for the market). A study by the San Francisco fed in 2022 [0] calculated that based on Zillow market data, the rent component of the CPI is to increase by about seven percent each…

"OER is also a lagging indicator due to it being calculated on current rental expenses, not market rate rents."

What kind of an argument is this? Clearly the OER must be a current indicator (i.e. not lagging) if it is based on current rental expenses. The small section of the population that is in the market for a new place to live should not be taken as the average for the entire population. If anything the market rents are just an indicator of future OER.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#683

Post by nforgerit »

anticodon wrote: post #657
nforgerit wrote: post #588

Earlier quoted context omitted.

German here. > USA had blown up the pipelines delivering cheap energy from Russia Well, did they? I know this theory but AFAIK they could trace it back to some people in Ukrainian military. Western secret services (afair from Netherlands) even warned them twice that this was being planned but they didn’t react. > USA is deliberately suffocating German economy. Sorry, but those are ALL mistakes made by Germans themsel…

> Well, did they? I know this theory but AFAIK they could trace it back to some people in Ukrainian military. Western secret services (afair from Netherlands) even warned them twice that this was being planned but they didn’t react. Such operation can't be performed by amateurs from a rented yacht. It requires experience and resources available only to few countries on Earth. Also, it was just a version published by…

Well, that's too much in the realm of conspiracy theories told by right- and left wing extremists in Germany.

Let me just say one thing: It doesn't necessarily take the US for German leadership to shoot their feet.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#684

Post by euroderf »

alphager wrote: post #598
dougmwne wrote: post #497

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Fancy term, but can you develop an argument to support it?

Do the laws apply equally to everyone regardless of wealth or do the rich achieve better results? We don't even have to pick the extreme outliers where affluenca officially plays a role. Someone that can spend a million on lawyers in the US will get a better outcome.

I would say that certain managerial / bureaucratic classes also have sweeping criminal immunity. Sometimes based on legal resources, sometimes not.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#685

Post by lukas099 »

ChatGTP wrote: post #403
throwawaylinux wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a "frame trap", and why do people get irrationally upset by the US doing well at something or the EU doing poorly? This post is about GDP growth. What has life expectancy got to do with it, and how are you contributing to any discussion? Has anybody here said that "GDP is the most important indicator"?

I actually think it's the opposite, I always see Americans getting really snarky about Europe, I could go back and find plenty of examples but I have better things to do. Personally I think average Americans have a hard time imaging a world where there is more to life than money. Ultimately whenever I see these "murica" centric posts, I remember them flying in emergency medical supplies from China and everybody being…

> I actually think it's the opposite, I always see Americans getting really snarky about Europe

It's definitely both ways. Things Americans are snarky about: - Europe starting world wars, America getting pulled in and 'winning' them (taking an outsized view of America's role) - "Everything is so small here"

Things Europeans are snarky about: - Not knowing geography or anything about the world outside the U.S. - Tipping - Atrocious public transit - High healthcare costs for poor outcomes

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#686

Post by lukas099 »

rafaelero wrote: post #252
e4e5 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this argument. If everyone has become more productive, why would wages rise? Wouldn't we see that as inflation then? I think the rise of productivity is more seen in the growth of the GDP

Either wages keep stagnant and prices drop following productivity growth (gold standard) or wage growth = price growth (inflation) + productivity growth (fiat system).

Can you explain why the monetary system changes the effects of productivity growth like this?

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#687

Post by lukas099 »

clipsy wrote: post #253
selectodude wrote: post #109

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That must be unique to Europe because in the United States, a 90th percentile income is >$200,000. I don't make that and I live extremely comfortably on my own.

The cutoff for 90th percentile in the US for individual income is $132k[0], certainly not >$200k. I'm guessing you looked at household income. [0]: https://dqydj.com/average-median-top-individual-income-perce...

Still definitely enough to live on your own.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#688

Post by cjrp »

nonethewiser wrote: post #269
dougmwne wrote: post #73

Here’s a better comparison. The thing that really hurt the Eurozone was the 2011 - 2013 recession that the US did not experience. Plus there’s a slower growth rate even in the good times. https://freedomandprosperity.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/... That said, these numbers are very misleading and do not show well what a person’s life looks like in the US. By my own anecdotal estimation, in the EU low and medium in…

> By my own anecdotal estimation Well here is an actual study that found the poorest 20% of Americans consumed more goods and services than the average people from affluent countries. Including Europe. https://www.justfacts.com/news_poorest_americans_richer_than... This matches my anecdotal observations of everything being smaller in Europe, people owning less, and energy being so expensive.

Maybe that says more about the availability of consumer credit though?

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#689

Post by evantbyrne »

omarelb wrote: post #430
evantbyrne wrote: post #306

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Quality of life varies significantly based on where you are in the US. There are definitely smaller cities that offer high standards of living–if that's your speed.

What cities would that be? Asking for a friend ;)

You could start by looking at places that people from the big cities visit for summer vacation. The town I live in has a full winter season, and in the summer turns into a beach town with a lot of regional tourists who boost businesses up with money. Very low crime and thriving local culture. Common to see people not lock their bikes while downtown.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#690

Post by fakedang »

modo_mario wrote: post #548
fakedang wrote: post #335

Earlier quoted context omitted.

European people aren't called racists as much as they are called deluded and self-righteous. The European govts were so confident of being in the right that they failed to counter the social changes happening in their own backyards, while lecturing other countries on their policies. And by Europeans here, I mean the EU, the govt of some individual WE countries and a small minority of vocal activist personalities who…

I think you forget that many of the southern countries that did say no to immigrants (recognizing that most of those did not intend to stay in their countries but they ended up stuck with them when faced with more closed borders) pushed for a redistribution scheme. In fact when italy didn't have french backing for this they did what a few balkan countries had been doing and simply bussed migrants to the border which…

The redistribution scheme was pushed by the Northern countries though. The southern countries would oppose the immigration, and redistribution was sort of the compromise the Northern countries wanted to keep the inflow of cheap labor.

The Turkish agreement is meaningless - if all of Europe had been vehemently opposed to importing immigrants, immigration would have stopped at the Turkish-Syrian border. Immigration did not happen because of the Syrian war - it was a constant trend. What opened the spigot was the fall of hard regimes in North Africa such as Libya, Tunisia and North Africa (something EU biggies like France, Netherlands, Germany supported because "dictators bad!"), which led to their own borders becoming much weakened.

Third, no immigrant wants to settle in Hungary because they're immigrants, not refugees. And as immigrants, they're simply choosing the country with the best welfare. There was even an article in 2016ish I read (I'm sure there are loads) where an interviewee said that he was taking his family from Greece all the way to Sweden because the welfare benefits were better.

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