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Britain Is a Developing Country

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Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#31

Post by mikrl »

jstx1 wrote: post #17
iLoveOncall wrote: post #9

Having lived in multiple western EU countries and in the US, and now living in the UK, I can say that it's not developing, it's regressing. It is baffling how bad everything is, from public services (8 months of average waiting time in the NHS for something as benign as a lumbar puncture) to worker's rights (it's literally worse than the US). And now they of course committed economic suicide with the Brexit. I simply…

> worker's rights (it's literally worse than the US) This seems very incorrect given that the UK has stricter laws around dismissal (the bar for losing your job is much higher), better minimum wage laws, more legally mandated holidays per year, paid time off for sickness, parental pay etc. - very basic things that the US doesn't have, at least not uniformly across states and industries.

The UK has only had a minimum wage act since 1998. So it might be better now, but taking a larger context window… not so much.

However, the social benefits around leave etc are definitely better but this is perhaps because of a more homogeneous culture than the US where some states like to work their fingers to the bone, and some states are more relaxed. The UK is definitely work hard, play hard and the only national variation seems to be the work getting done (blue vs white collar in US terms)

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#33

Post by stuaxo »

ecshafer wrote: post #30

Growing up I assumed the UK was pretty rich. But then when you look at the stats, the UK is about as wealthy as Mississippi, one of the poorest states. Learning that people with college degrees in the UK make 25k GBP, and that is considered good, sure isn't that bad when GBP was worth 2x USD. But people are living in London for those salaries. The big expensive cities in the US, like NYC pay you much more to compensa…

The money is there it's just that ordinary people don't have it.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#34

Post by secondcoming »

crop_rotation wrote: post #6

Does the UK have anything going for it? It is very hard for me to see the UK having a better quality of life in future than they had in the past. Not being part of the EU means they will mostly be squeezed in trade negotiations. And the UK does not have any industry going for it, so sooner or later the living standards would catch up with the rest of the developing world at the middle.

It must do since people are risking their lives to get here.

It has problems for sure, but other EU countries have the same problems.

Seeing the continental Europe is currently being baked dry, I'm kind of glad that the weather in Scotland is miserable.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#36

Post by gnfargbl »

I agree with much of this article, but just as a counterpoint:

> Americans could stop working each year on September 20th and they’d still be richer than Britons working for the whole year.

...and yet the average American almost never stops working. That car wash manager in Alabama gets three weeks of PTO per year, and probably earns every cent of their $125k -- Buc-ee's is a pretty demanding employer, I think?

Of course I would like to see the UK import the average GDP of the US, but I'm not sure I want the social structures that go along with it. I would rather be importing those from our former friends in the EU, with whom we actually have a lot more in common with culturally than we like to admit.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#37

Post by eterm »

tinktank wrote: post #22
madeofpalk wrote: post #15

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Compared to where? It's a large-ish, English speaking country, with plenty of other countries nearby, that isn't North America.

The rest of the G8 I would presume.

It's not been the G8 for almost a decade now.

If you really meant the G8, well, the UK for all it's faults is still somewhere I'd rather live than Russia.

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#38

Post by Xophmeister » 

    * Annual energy use per person in the US is 77,000 kWh; in the UK it’s 30,000 kWh. 
    
    * Annual electricity generation per person is 12,700 kWh; in the UK it’s 4,800 kWh.
Consuming/generating less energy is a good thing, no? If we presume energy is the limiting factor, then the other bullet points suddenly look a little different. For example, productivity: US $0.96/MWh²; UK $1.65/MWh².

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#39

Post by stuaxo »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #9

Having lived in multiple western EU countries and in the US, and now living in the UK, I can say that it's not developing, it's regressing. It is baffling how bad everything is, from public services (8 months of average waiting time in the NHS for something as benign as a lumbar puncture) to worker's rights (it's literally worse than the US). And now they of course committed economic suicide with the Brexit. I simply…

Workers rights is a mixed bag. If you are a contractor, somehow you seem to opt out - for everyone else you get a decent amount of holiday (people in the US seem to just get two weeks!?).

Re: Britain Is a Developing Country

#40

Post by anyoneamous »

iLoveOncall wrote: post #9

Having lived in multiple western EU countries and in the US, and now living in the UK, I can say that it's not developing, it's regressing. It is baffling how bad everything is, from public services (8 months of average waiting time in the NHS for something as benign as a lumbar puncture) to worker's rights (it's literally worse than the US). And now they of course committed economic suicide with the Brexit. I simply…

> I simply do not understand how anyone can think that the UK is a first-world country if they have ever lived in a real one before.

While I am fully on board with the sentiment that we are circling the drain, can you be more specific about where is actually better? I'm interested both from the perspective of potential emigration, but also trying to be rational rather than sensationalist - if I'm stuck here, I want a clearer picture of what "good" looks like.

My current sense is that a country like Switzerland is probably what most Brits would be happiest with (myself included), but that is not compatible with our national self-identity as a "major player" which is falling behind. Sometimes I think we'd be better off giving up the nukes and handing out UN security council seat to India, but that is not exactly an easy sell for a politician.

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