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The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

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Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#421

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Rural living traditionally meant living in dense villages surrounded by farmland. Lonely farms were more common in the frontier. There was safety in numbers, and living next to other households allowed sharing things that were too expensive for most households.

Not really. At least, never in the US. Plantations, for example, are fairly distant from each other, and from their associated towns.

There are always exceptions and edge cases. Plantations and farms are generally neither known as examples of urban design, nor are they homes for majority of population of any state.

But even using the example of 18th century plantation - the idea of a parking lot for more than a dozen or so horse drawn carriages seems somewhat... straight out of Flinstones.

I agree that You can find some early examples of the modern "carriage-based" urbanism earlier than in the 20th century, but those would be very specific cases. If 90% of the population lives in some denser urban setting and mostly walks, "their" neighborhoods will reflect that in how and where they are built (at least after a generation or two that's necessary for construction). Same reasoning applies if that ratio changes and within a generation or two, everyone suddenly can afford to own a car. The question is now which way do we (and, by proxy, the politicians we elect) want to promote.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#422
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except that one big car is not controlled by you, and you have to schedule your trip around it, rather than have the convenience of any-time availability. Not to mention you can't really carry much onboard.

Your objection is specifically a cultural objection rather than one based on any physical real world issue. Japan, many european cities, etc are all comfortable with the provision and use of widespread public transport. Where it's a problem is those locations where people such as the Koch brothers [1] invested 50 years (1970 - present) and tens of millions of dollars to bend both public opinion and state and city rep…

> Japan, many european cities, etc are all comfortable with the provision and use of widespread public transport.

And yet, they have many many cars.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#423

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Having 4 independent adults in a 4 bed house is quite common in the UK due to the cost of housing. Having 3 or 4 adults in a 4 bed house is even more common once you include 20-something kids who live with their parents due to the cost of housing. The cost of housing is nothing to do with the number of car parking spaces provided. If you assume the typical 2 adult 2 children household (the ones most likely to be in t…

> Having 4 independent adults in a 4 bed house is quite common As it would be in Australia. But not 4 families!

HMOs are increasingly common in the UK -- not just in London or for students, but in towns for working professionals. You can (and do) easily have a 4 bed house with 4 adults with 4 separate jobs. I have a 40+ friend with a phd who lives in such a house near Bristol (3 adults in a 3 bed house).

Hell back in 2003 I lived in a 4 bed house in London which had 7 adults in it (I didn't stay there for long). That type of housing is 3 times more expensive now in relation to earnings. If you were to put that in somewhere like Mansfield you're talking at least 4 cars even if half the people commute via bus.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#424
post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except that one big car is not controlled by you, and you have to schedule your trip around it, rather than have the convenience of any-time availability. Not to mention you can't really carry much onboard.

Do people not have to schedule around 15-30 minute drives? How is that any different from “I can be there in 15 if I make the S3 train otherwise about 25 since I’ll catch the 86 bus that runs shortly after”? There really is no defense at all for being car dependent. Literally every other country in the world proves you don’t need them.

> Literally every other country in the world proves you don’t need them.

Please, tell us one country in the world that doesn't need cars.

Many, may be less dependent on cars than the U.S. . But no country is independent of cars. Using such hyperbole doesn't help the conversions. It just deepens the trenches.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#425
post #403

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Where I live, the subway comes every 3-5 minutes, like clockwork. aka, you've just qualified your use of public transport with the condition that you would not ever need to wait more than 3-5mins. What if you had to wait 30mins or an hour? In the majority of cities in the US, esp. slightly more rural areas or smaller towns, this is clockwork public transit is highly unlikely to be the norm.

>What if you had to wait 30mins or an hour? I wouldn't live in such a shitty, broken, mismanaged shithole. Properly managed places are able to provide good public transit. >In the majority of cities in the US, esp. slightly more rural areas or smaller towns, this is clockwork public transit is highly unlikely to be the norm. Right, because the US is broken and doesn't know how to do this stuff properly. It's like com…

> I wouldn't live in such a shitty, broken, mismanaged shithole. Properly managed places are able to provide good public transit.

So you don't want to live somewhere near forests or lakes. Somewhere, where is still some for of nature present. You only want to live downtown in a major city. Let me guess, you don't have children. Because many people change their opinion about that when they become parents.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#426
post #271

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Dutch and I want to push back against the glorification of our infrastructure. To comment on that video specifically: Yes, fully on board with the narrower streets, "hiding" parking, having some shared public space like playgrounds. These are all good things. But there's a flip side to this coin. This isn't necessarily a desired "way of life", it's what naturally evolved due to severe space constraints. I specifi…

I'm also dutch. Housing is indeed expensive here. There are many factors, but it's not because of walkable neighbourhoods, biking infrastructure and public transport (the things that are promoted). I'd argue that without these policies housing and transport will be 10x more expensive and inconvenient.

The main factor is that the Netherlands is 15(!) times denser than the US. That's why everything has to be compact.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#427
post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think anti-car activists would do great to mod SimCity to have realistic parking lots.

I don't think many people are truly anti-car activists. Just that we need to redimension their absolute centrality to so many policies and budgets. I'm involved in pro-housing politics and it's just amazing how many people are like "well, ok, sure, people need a place to live and all, but let's think FIRST about where to store the automobiles. If that works out, then I guess we can build some housing". They don't say…

> I'm involved in pro-housing politics and it's just amazing how many people are like "well, ok, sure, people need a place to live and all, but let's think FIRST about where to store the automobiles. If that works out, then I guess we can build some housing".

Out in the real world, as we have constructed it, this is (sadly) pretty reasonable.

It's a chicken and egg problem. If you limit the market for an apartment to people who are willing to waste an extra hour to make bus transfers and/or those who are willing to risk their lives cycling on deadly stroads, you're going to have a much smaller pool of potential renters.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#428

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm Dutch and I want to push back against the glorification of our infrastructure. To comment on that video specifically: Yes, fully on board with the narrower streets, "hiding" parking, having some shared public space like playgrounds. These are all good things. But there's a flip side to this coin. This isn't necessarily a desired "way of life", it's what naturally evolved due to severe space constraints. I specifi…

> But there's a flip side to this coin. This isn't necessarily a desired "way of life", it's what naturally evolved due to severe space constraints. There is nothing 'natural' about the evolution of NL cities as demonstrated by the fact that (e.g.) Amsterdam started to go down the car-centric route: * https://inkspire.org/post/amsterdam-was-a-car-loving-city-in... It was a policy choice to not go in that direction—or…

I mean these type of developments are "natural" in the sense that the Netherlands is one of the densest countries in the world, 15 times denser than the US.

I can ensure you that the typical Dutch person would love to have a US style suburbian home.

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