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Are large language models a threat to digital public goods?

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111–120 of 163 posts

Re: Are large language models a threat to digital public goods?

#111
post #76

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Putting all knowledge in the hands of a for-profit company is the opposite of “democratization of knowledge”.

It's not as if the rest of the internet is deleted just because an AI model has been trained on it.

Yeah, but people rely on it more and more, so it's going to shape society.

Re: Are large language models a threat to digital public goods?

#112

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This isn't so much about compensation, but why should I help enrich a large, even more direct rent seeker? Valuable information in a way is becoming more valuable for the LLM provider, so I would expect a drop in high value information in the public domain.

Perhaps there will be a drop in high value information in the public domain, but right now, I can't exactly see LLMs impacting the incentives for creation and sharing of that information. I don't see how LLMs would make someone go "oh well, AI is here, I might as well stop providing people with no-strings-attached high quality information", if the existence of search engines didn't make them stop already.

For years people have been making travel blogs based on where they've visited and the practical information they've discovered, like experiences of visiting attractions or good places to stay in cities or how they got from one place to another. They monetised with ads and affiliate links so they could travel more based on that income.

In LLM land, they get no monetisation any more because nobody visits their sites, instead the LLM just regurgitates the answers they found.

The search engines actively supported these authors, by sending them people who needed the answers they had.

So in LLM land this information goes away because the feedback loop of the traveller creating information which earns them money to continue travelling goes away.

A LOT of the useful information on the web was built on similar feedback loops and they go away in LLM land.

Re: Are large language models a threat to digital public goods?

#113
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people justifiably care because making that information is their livelihood. Your entitlement to the labor of others is gross.

Then perhaps they should find other means of livelihood, instead of preventing the rest of the world from making full use of the information and technology available to it.

They will and less information will be put into places that are freely accessible. If it's put anywhere at all it'll be put behind login only/paywalled/unscrapable places that LLM's can't access.

Re: Are large language models a threat to digital public goods?

#114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'd expect user engagement to be going down in the same trend that has been occurring over the past five years as Stackoverflow is less and less useful.

As someone who is getting their start with coding, where/what forums exist that have a high quality/helpful community? My biggest struggle has been with relatively simple questions – with a broad stroked theme/issue to 'em for the most part. AKA having a mentor or just a group of coders who are willing to help out if you are willing to be an active member (but I'm relatively useless, aka active maybe in an off-topic…

Programming language discords might be good. Code review stack exchange has been pretty helpful, though maybe wait until you have a grasp on the basics before posting.

If you struggle with broad issues a HN post is probably a good place to start, assuming you can express your question well. I imagine you'll get the highest signal to noise ratio here.

Edit: btw nobody can pm you as you have no contact info in your bio afaict.

Re: Are large language models a threat to digital public goods?

#115
post #51

I won't upload any of my writing to the web anymore until this is all sorted out. You can make fun of me all you like, but it's taken me decades to get good at this, and I'll be damned if some soft-skinned SV kid with a MacBook uses my work to power his mill.

I get the feeling. When I felt like writing again after years of closing my previous blog, it though about it for a while before committing to https://bitecode.dev . But eventually, I realized that - I also write for myself, not just for others. - People like reading things without having to prompt for it. So they will read the blog because it's nice and topics come to them even if they don't think that they need to…

I'm not depriving myself of writing, not by any means! I'm just depriving the internet of it.

Re: Are large language models a threat to digital public goods?

#116
post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A lot of people justifiably care because making that information is their livelihood. Your entitlement to the labor of others is gross.

Ideas are copied by reading or hearing them. You can't own your ideas now, unless by own you mean horde. The perpetual creators rights you want extended are already artificial and require a non-trivial amount of our GDP to enforce and they still stifle future creation in a lot of areas. Most people are paid for doing things every day, they don't get to create one thing and never work again. Expanding creators compens…

Your entitlement to the labor of others is gross.

Re: Are large language models a threat to digital public goods?

#117

They used stack overflow to make their case, and report that user engagement has gone down after the release of ChatGPT. Could it not be the case that SO is less adept at finding related/duplicate questions than ChatGPT? Given the later's facility with the language, I would expect it to be. So I look at the paper to see if they accounted for that, and find this. "Second, we investigate whether ChatGPT is simply displ…

In 2013 or maybe it was 2014 I was tasked with building a couple of things for our Sharepoint 2010 that ran our intranet. I’m a programmer but it was pretty far out of my area of expertise and it was hard to find anything documentation related, probably because Sharepoint 2013 had been released. Anyway, I made things work by doing a lot of google programming, of which a lot led me to SO. Most of it was build with JavaScript but I still needed to figure out how to work with Sharepoint APIs and Lists. Fast forward to 2023 and I’m tasked with working with our current Sharepoint. It’s still far out of my comfort zone, but the Microsoft documentation is on point and it turns out to be a fairly trivial task to engage with the APIs. This story isn’t really unique to Sharepoint, and while obviously very anecdotal, these days it’s very rare that your average blog spam or SO answers are more helpful to me than official documentation, and often the official GitHub code examples. Now I’m more experienced today than I was in 2013 so that helps as well, but for the most part, I think the key reduction for my personal google programming has been how much better we as software developers have become at documenting our tools.

So in 2023 I almost never visit SO, not because of GPT but because the people who write frameworks also supply you with documentation and implementation examples.

Again anecdotal, but I do use GPT quite a bit. Though rarely to help me figure something out. It writes my documentation, unless the code is very secret. It sometimes writes some basic code like auto-generating a docker file or basic API classes. Things that aren’t in competition with SO. I’m sure it’ll take over the role of SO for some parts, but to me personally, it seems far more likely that SO’s decline is linked to a range of other challenges as well.

Re: Are large language models a threat to digital public goods?

#118
post #54

They used stack overflow to make their case, and report that user engagement has gone down after the release of ChatGPT. Could it not be the case that SO is less adept at finding related/duplicate questions than ChatGPT? Given the later's facility with the language, I would expect it to be. So I look at the paper to see if they accounted for that, and find this. "Second, we investigate whether ChatGPT is simply displ…

> They used stack overflow to make their case, and report that user engagement has gone down after the release of ChatGPT. Could it not be the case that SO is less adept at finding related/duplicate questions than ChatGPT? Given the later's facility with the language, I would expect it to be. So I look at the paper to see if they accounted for that, and find this. The moderation team and community in general on Stack…

  > the moron moderation team can't detect nuance.
It is unwise to leave the detection of nuance to volunteer moderators. Rather, highlight the nuance in your question (or answer). That strategy had always landed me high value answers to my questions.

Re: Are large language models a threat to digital public goods?

#119
post #54

They used stack overflow to make their case, and report that user engagement has gone down after the release of ChatGPT. Could it not be the case that SO is less adept at finding related/duplicate questions than ChatGPT? Given the later's facility with the language, I would expect it to be. So I look at the paper to see if they accounted for that, and find this. "Second, we investigate whether ChatGPT is simply displ…

> They used stack overflow to make their case, and report that user engagement has gone down after the release of ChatGPT. Could it not be the case that SO is less adept at finding related/duplicate questions than ChatGPT? Given the later's facility with the language, I would expect it to be. So I look at the paper to see if they accounted for that, and find this. The moderation team and community in general on Stack…

I have anecdotal stories about aa friend corroborating this. He had been rebuked and experienced an unwelcoming response on Stack Overflow in response to his questions while trying to learn web development, and found ChatGPT a great teacher in comparison.

Re: Are large language models a threat to digital public goods?

#120

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I have really enjoyed using https://phind.com , which includes attribution in its responses.

Phind’s base model, which is GPT3.5/4 doesn’t itself do attribution, it’s made to do that with prompt engineering which provides the most relevant materials on the web based on a word embedding vector search, and then asks it to reference each source in the answer.

Thank you I want to believe responsible development is happening. I just asked an LLM my first question and the interactive processing was great to watch.
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