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The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

nextcity.org

81–90 of 137 posts

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#81
Ignoring the details of this particular initiative, from a high-level view this is wonderful.

Similarly to how Tesla's future failure or success is irrelevant as they've already succeeded in the most important task of proving that EVs can work and thus driving the industry to produce them en masse, Uber and Lyft have driven a revolution.

They've shown that the old model for running a taxi service was horrendously outdated and customer-unfriendly (and also driver-unfriendly, in some cities) and now others can innovate and compete along the same lines, differentiating via areas that Uber and Lyft either can't or won't. I know it's essentially a meme on here to diminish Dropbox or Twitter to being basic services that one could easily replicate in an hour or a weekend, but it's similar for Uber and Lyft: the underlying concept and technology is relatively easily replicable - meaning their moat is pretty insecure. As time goes on, one can envisage them dying a slow death by a thousand cuts.

From a consumer's perspective, some sort of federation or interoperability would be needed between these competing apps. If it is necessary to research and download a different taxi app for every city --including going through the usual painful signup process each time-- it will drive people back to the common denominator of the big incumbents.

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#82
post #75
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much "this!". The hotel/booking is the most blatant example, because the bar for "good enough" wouldn't really be that far up. The only moat they have is worldwide discoverability (a regional cooperative just won't reach people who visit once, cooperatives would have to start global, or at least be really, really good at federating) and that the threshold for critical mass in that market is winner takes all: at le…

Depends on the vertical. I would not be real comfortable booking lodging on some random portal, especially if we're talking more of an AirBnB thing vs hotels.

A cooperative booking organization would have strong incentive to keep their members in the straight & narrow. It is a cooperation problem and institutional enforcement is a proven recipe for ensuring that.

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#83
post #81

Ignoring the details of this particular initiative, from a high-level view this is wonderful. Similarly to how Tesla's future failure or success is irrelevant as they've already succeeded in the most important task of proving that EVs can work and thus driving the industry to produce them en masse, Uber and Lyft have driven a revolution. They've shown that the old model for running a taxi service was horrendously out…

> Similarly to how Tesla's future failure or success is irrelevant as they've already succeeded in the most important task of proving that EVs can work

They’re still pushing forefronts. NACS and infrastructure roll-out. Iron-based battery chemistries. Cars versus only SUVs.

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#84
post #75
post #71

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So much "this!". The hotel/booking is the most blatant example, because the bar for "good enough" wouldn't really be that far up. The only moat they have is worldwide discoverability (a regional cooperative just won't reach people who visit once, cooperatives would have to start global, or at least be really, really good at federating) and that the threshold for critical mass in that market is winner takes all: at le…

Depends on the vertical. I would not be real comfortable booking lodging on some random portal, especially if we're talking more of an AirBnB thing vs hotels.

Yeah, that's one of the moats some have but booking.com has not: you don't just pop up a hotel from nothing, and the hypothetical failure mode of complete fakes appearing out of thin air is not only solved by payment on site but also by the local hotel owner community having a financial interest in policing their turf.

Or not, could be a fun plot for some speculative fiction: on a cooperative post-booking.com platform, hotel owners in a remote valley discover that they can earn quite nicely by offering "rescue nights" to guest who fell for a series of fake listings they keep up, untraceably because the fakes lack a payment channel to follow. Add some Bates vibes to the one hotelier who refuses to take part in the scheme for multi-layered tension.

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#85
post #84
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the vertical. I would not be real comfortable booking lodging on some random portal, especially if we're talking more of an AirBnB thing vs hotels.

Yeah, that's one of the moats some have but booking.com has not: you don't just pop up a hotel from nothing, and the hypothetical failure mode of complete fakes appearing out of thin air is not only solved by payment on site but also by the local hotel owner community having a financial interest in policing their turf. Or not, could be a fun plot for some speculative fiction: on a cooperative post-booking.com platfor…

There are already a gazillion scams that prey on naive tourists.

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#86
post #82
post #75

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Depends on the vertical. I would not be real comfortable booking lodging on some random portal, especially if we're talking more of an AirBnB thing vs hotels.

A cooperative booking organization would have strong incentive to keep their members in the straight & narrow. It is a cooperation problem and institutional enforcement is a proven recipe for ensuring that.

Hm, it depends? In a near-monopoly situation, maybe not so much?

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#88

"Digital" cooperatives using (optionally) open source platforms is an idea that should be much more explored imho. The concept applies to so many verticals involving small companies or individual operators (from taxis, to hotels, to restaurants, to real estate agents, local bookstores, cinemas, to game developers etc. etc.) The inability of large numbers of small entities to coordinate and cooperate in the digital er…

> The autocracy of a top-down corporate structure is more effective than a democratic collective.

If that was the case then Soviet Union's central planning would be more efficient than Liberal democracy's market capitalism. The efficiency of corporations stems from unfair advantages states gives them like intellectual property rights or from socialising their losses and privatising their gains from public budget.

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#89

"Digital" cooperatives using (optionally) open source platforms is an idea that should be much more explored imho. The concept applies to so many verticals involving small companies or individual operators (from taxis, to hotels, to restaurants, to real estate agents, local bookstores, cinemas, to game developers etc. etc.) The inability of large numbers of small entities to coordinate and cooperate in the digital er…

This sounds a lot like some of the rationale behind "web3"

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#90
post #31
post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Travelling_salesman_problem Traveling Salesman is NP-Hard. Don't think it is solvable with current technology.

Being NP-hard doesn't mean it's unsolvable at all. It means it's not solvable quickly. Google maps does this millions of times per day... the number of points on the trip are few enough that you can brute force it perfectly or use a heuristic to solve it faster but less optimally. Very solvable just not optimizable algorithmicly.

My answer that you are replying to ends with “…with current technology” which contains what you said.
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