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The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

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Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#401

Post by iso1631 »

wizofaus wrote: post #320
iso1631 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK we build houses without enough parking and the whole area becomes horrendous. The idea I get from reading about US "pro housing" people is that if you don't provide parking, people will still have a car and still park. In reality in the UK every patch of open space, including pavements (sidewalks) become car storage facilities. housing estates with 4 bed houses with just 1 car parking space (plus a garage w…

In all honesty, why is a 4-bedroom house with only a single dedicated car parking space a problem? Is it because families that have decided they must have multiple cars parked close to their home all the time are leaving them parked in public locations that other people value and want to use? If so, it sounds like those parking locations need to be charged for. Said families may then rethink whether they really need…

> If so, it sounds like those parking locations need to be charged for.

I agree, however once you make it the norm then people expect to have parking for free, and anyone attempting to change that would be voted out of office

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#402

Post by iso1631 »

dabeeeenster wrote: post #319
iso1631 wrote: post #202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In the UK we build houses without enough parking and the whole area becomes horrendous. The idea I get from reading about US "pro housing" people is that if you don't provide parking, people will still have a car and still park. In reality in the UK every patch of open space, including pavements (sidewalks) become car storage facilities. housing estates with 4 bed houses with just 1 car parking space (plus a garage w…

Total nonsense. New builds in the UK have ample parking.

No, they don't. Planing permission typically allows a 4 bed with 2 parking spaces, but one is a garage, meaning it's 1 usable parking space. Given that the only way you can afford a house is to have at least 2 workers, that leaves either 2 cars or public transit. Public transit in the UK is far better than the US but is still not good enough for most people.

With increasing numbers of children staying with their parents past education, you end up with 3 or 4 commuters per house.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#403

Post by chii »

midoridensha wrote: post #396
chii wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except that one big car is not controlled by you, and you have to schedule your trip around it, rather than have the convenience of any-time availability. Not to mention you can't really carry much onboard.

Where I live, the subway comes every 3-5 minutes, like clockwork. Is that really so inconvenient? On the rare occasions you have more stuff than you can carry, you can just pay for delivery. It's far cheaper than the ongoing total-cost-of-ownership of a car.

> Where I live, the subway comes every 3-5 minutes, like clockwork.

aka, you've just qualified your use of public transport with the condition that you would not ever need to wait more than 3-5mins. What if you had to wait 30mins or an hour?

In the majority of cities in the US, esp. slightly more rural areas or smaller towns, this is clockwork public transit is highly unlikely to be the norm.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#404

Post by midoridensha »

chii wrote: post #403
midoridensha wrote: post #396

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Where I live, the subway comes every 3-5 minutes, like clockwork. Is that really so inconvenient? On the rare occasions you have more stuff than you can carry, you can just pay for delivery. It's far cheaper than the ongoing total-cost-of-ownership of a car.

> Where I live, the subway comes every 3-5 minutes, like clockwork. aka, you've just qualified your use of public transport with the condition that you would not ever need to wait more than 3-5mins. What if you had to wait 30mins or an hour? In the majority of cities in the US, esp. slightly more rural areas or smaller towns, this is clockwork public transit is highly unlikely to be the norm.

>What if you had to wait 30mins or an hour?

I wouldn't live in such a shitty, broken, mismanaged shithole. Properly managed places are able to provide good public transit.

>In the majority of cities in the US, esp. slightly more rural areas or smaller towns, this is clockwork public transit is highly unlikely to be the norm.

Right, because the US is broken and doesn't know how to do this stuff properly. It's like complaining how Eritrea isn't able to provide efficient public transit.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#405

Post by chii »

defrost wrote: post #380
chii wrote: post #376

Earlier quoted context omitted.

except that one big car is not controlled by you, and you have to schedule your trip around it, rather than have the convenience of any-time availability. Not to mention you can't really carry much onboard.

Your objection is specifically a cultural objection rather than one based on any physical real world issue. Japan, many european cities, etc are all comfortable with the provision and use of widespread public transport. Where it's a problem is those locations where people such as the Koch brothers [1] invested 50 years (1970 - present) and tens of millions of dollars to bend both public opinion and state and city rep…

> a cultural objection rather than one based on any physical real world issue.

and this is what i dislike about discourse about public transport.

It is woefully inadequate in the majority of the US. Until the day it is fixed, car will always be a superior mode of transport, but then if car is so often used, there's no public incentive to build out more PT.

And by now, the suburban sprawl has made it such that building out the necessary PT with sufficient quantity and quality to replace cars is prohibitively expensive.

The best solution, imho, is a fleet of auto-driving cars that do not need to be parked, but is available at one's beck and call. Think uber, but is available 24/7 on demand.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#406

Post by CalRobert »

abdullahkhalids wrote: post #209
TeeWEE wrote: post #5

Come to the Netherlands. Sell your car. Buy a bike. A car is not really a status symbol here. Its more like a liability.

Here are the stats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_... Netherlands has 38th highest cars/capita. Austria, Scotland, Sweden, Denmark, Ireland, Hungary all have lower car ownership numbers. Though not that much lower. Why is this?

The Dutch are wealthy, for one. And older (average age around 42, vs 38 for Ireland for instance). I don't actually mind cars existing. I just don't like it when they become the only option for most trips due to bad design choices, or when I am made to pay for other people's motoring.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#407

Post by midoridensha »

astrodust wrote: post #240
david2ndaccount wrote: post #132

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Many cities in the US are only usable by car. You can’t just leap from a car-based city to a non-car-based city, you have to provide transitionary options (also even car-optional cities still have parking garages).

Somehow many cities took the leap from extremely pedestrian friendly in 1900 to completely car based, so "you can't just" is clearly not true. It just takes a lot of willpower, or in the case of cars, tons of lobbying.

Don't forget a huge post-war economic boom, plus a bunch of racism and white flight.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#408

Post by [deleted] »

fragmede wrote: post #394
criddell wrote: post #382

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because I do want a home base. I want a large workshop for woodworking, painting, and maybe ceramics. I want a place to have musical instruments. I want a great home theater, gym, sauna, and an amazing kitchen. I want space to work on my motorcycle. Land is important. I want a big garden and lots of space between me and my neighbors. I want quiet nights and a dark sky. I could never afford this near a city, but once…

I want a lot of things too but unfortunately I have a limited amount of money. I'd like all those things, but I'd rather have money so I can live off the interest and not have to work, so I have the time and energy to do any of those things. To each their own.

[deleted]

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#409

Post by wizofaus »

heartbreak wrote: post #365
wizofaus wrote: post #320

Earlier quoted context omitted.

In all honesty, why is a 4-bedroom house with only a single dedicated car parking space a problem? Is it because families that have decided they must have multiple cars parked close to their home all the time are leaving them parked in public locations that other people value and want to use? If so, it sounds like those parking locations need to be charged for. Said families may then rethink whether they really need…

It’s four different families in one house.

How common is that in the UK?? It'd be exceedingly rare in Australia.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#410

Post by camgunz »

chii wrote: post #405
defrost wrote: post #380

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Your objection is specifically a cultural objection rather than one based on any physical real world issue. Japan, many european cities, etc are all comfortable with the provision and use of widespread public transport. Where it's a problem is those locations where people such as the Koch brothers [1] invested 50 years (1970 - present) and tens of millions of dollars to bend both public opinion and state and city rep…

> a cultural objection rather than one based on any physical real world issue. and this is what i dislike about discourse about public transport. It is woefully inadequate in the majority of the US. Until the day it is fixed, car will always be a superior mode of transport, but then if car is so often used, there's no public incentive to build out more PT. And by now, the suburban sprawl has made it such that buildin…

These are just small, super inefficient buses.
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