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The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

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Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#521

Post by ffhhttt »

lionkor wrote: post #468
AbrahamParangi wrote: post #304

Earlier quoted context omitted.

These stats drive me up the wall because the US is more diverse than every single European country . The life expectancy in California is 81 and in Alabama it’s 74. That’s the difference between the UK and like, Latvia. This matters because when you look at these crude aggregate stats, people naively assume that it means that everything is a bit worse but the actual American story is usually more like broad prosperit…

> more diverse than every single European country by what metric?

Are you ready doubting whether the US as whole are more diverse than any single European country?

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#522

Post by dougmwne »

SubjectToChange wrote: post #475
dougmwne wrote: post #172

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It was economical to buy the Russian gas delivered by pipeline. The US wanted to sell its more expensive LNG. And it ended up getting its wish after it supported a western aligned Ukraine and while no one wants to claim responsibility for blowing up nordstream, someone definitely blew it up and it helped cement the US as the gas supplier of Europe. I think the message is clear that it’s best not to upset the US.

Do you really believe that the USA would commit an act of war against Russia to… sell Europe natural gas?

The US supplies weapons, training, intelligence and logistics to just one side in an active war. Clearly “act of war” is a line they’ve been dancing on for awhile.

And I don’t know who did the sabotage, and I don’t know if it was on the suggestion of the US, but the winner certainly seems to be the US which has very effectively pulled Germany away from Russia and Russian energy markets.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#523

Post by jltsiren »

fhe wrote: post #496
mrb wrote: post #96

Note this chart shows nominal dollars, not PPP-adjusted. The EU has certainly kept up with the US when looking at PPP GDP from 2008 to 2022: US grew from $14.8T to $25.5T EU grew from $14.3T to $24.3T What that means is that the prices of goods are inflated in the US compared to similar goods in the EU. That's all. Want something interesting? Look at China who grew from $10.0T to $30.3T over the same period (!) Sourc…

I have always wondered to what extent GDP (price-adjusted or not) reflects standard of living. By different sources, GDP per capita for Britain is only 60% that of the US, but visiting these two countries I don't see much of a difference in standard of living.

If you make $50k/year and work for living, you are probably middle class. If you make $250k/year and work for living, you are probably still middle class. That's more or less the same thing.

Differences in income have a surprisingly small effect on quality of life. If you make more money, you can still afford the same luxuries. Just more of them and more often. You are likely buying bigger and better versions of fundamentally the same things. You probably spend your money less efficiently, buying all kinds of minor conveniences.

And if everyone around you makes more money, your expectations go up, and your spending will be even less efficient.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#525

Post by ffhhttt »

cypress66 wrote: post #167
janalsncm wrote: post #158

This is a bit of a frame trap. Here’s another metric: ==2021== Life expectancy in EU: 80 Life expectancy in US: 76 ==Rolling back to 2008== Life expectancy in EU: 79 Life expectancy in US: 78 What’s the point? Maybe GDP isn’t the most important indicator. The US can double it’s GDP by making healthcare more expensive and extracting every last dime from the elderly, but can it actually improve quality of life for peop…

Most of that life expectancy gap is due to obesity I'd guess.

Also race is a significant factor due to reasons..

A white person living in well-of state has about the same life expectancy as those living in the highest rated European countries.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#526

Post by raverbashing »

nonethewiser wrote: post #269
dougmwne wrote: post #73

Here’s a better comparison. The thing that really hurt the Eurozone was the 2011 - 2013 recession that the US did not experience. Plus there’s a slower growth rate even in the good times. https://freedomandprosperity.org/wp-content/uploads/2022/02/... That said, these numbers are very misleading and do not show well what a person’s life looks like in the US. By my own anecdotal estimation, in the EU low and medium in…

> By my own anecdotal estimation Well here is an actual study that found the poorest 20% of Americans consumed more goods and services than the average people from affluent countries. Including Europe. https://www.justfacts.com/news_poorest_americans_richer_than... This matches my anecdotal observations of everything being smaller in Europe, people owning less, and energy being so expensive.

> 20% of Americans consumed more goods and services than the average people from affluent countries

I wonder how much of those are things like "credit protection fees", "check printing fees", CC anual fees (of multiple CCs) or just paying hundreds of dollars for a medical consultation even after copay, etc

> everything being smaller in Europe, people owning less

Your car does not need to be a d*ck measuring contest, and public transport usually works

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#528

Post by Tade0 »

imtringued wrote: post #486
Tade0 wrote: post #461

The title is misleading. The Eurozone does not include the entire EU - there are quite a few countries with their own currencies(notably Czechia, Poland, Romania), which coincidentally saw some of the highest growths in the region during the last two decades. Meanwhile some Eurozone countries like Greece, Italy and Spain actually saw a decline. Hard not to draw such conclusions when your set includes all the troubled…

>which coincidentally saw some of the highest growths in the region during the last two decades. That isn't some coincidence. The biggest beneficiary of the Eurozone relies on the suffering of its less successful members and this is ultimately reflected by the fact that poorer countries in the Eurozone don't catch up with the rest of the EU and in fact the opposite happens. Meanwhile for EU countries outside the Euro…

Oh believe me the biggest beneficiary's influence goes way outside the Eurozone.

With this I'm glad my country doesn't qualify - I'll take that any day vs having monetary policy tied to that of a very different economy.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#529

Post by modo_mario »

misja111 wrote: post #450
sangnoir wrote: post #103

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I’d like to point out that the open door policy to refugees came because Europe was trying to escape the demographic trap and the collapse of the social safety net. Also, the US was bombing a couple of Middle Eastern countries then: creating the said refugees who could reach Europe on foot and/or boat, but not the American mainland .

This is just plain wrong. The millions of refugees came from Syria. The US was hardly bombing Syria at all, it just bombed Libya. Actually it was mostly EU countries, in particular France, that pushed for fighting the Assad regime at the time. The Obama government didn't even want to be involved at first.

I think you got things backwards. France wanted to bomb libya (as well as the UK) whils the US was a reluctant partner.

The US went for Syria/Assad leading the intervention and whilst France picked up it's involvement against ISIL & the like particularly after the Paris attacks it wasn't as big on it as Libya.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#530

Post by ffhhttt »

ChatGTP wrote: post #403
throwawaylinux wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a "frame trap", and why do people get irrationally upset by the US doing well at something or the EU doing poorly? This post is about GDP growth. What has life expectancy got to do with it, and how are you contributing to any discussion? Has anybody here said that "GDP is the most important indicator"?

I actually think it's the opposite, I always see Americans getting really snarky about Europe, I could go back and find plenty of examples but I have better things to do. Personally I think average Americans have a hard time imaging a world where there is more to life than money. Ultimately whenever I see these "murica" centric posts, I remember them flying in emergency medical supplies from China and everybody being…

> I always see Americans getting really snarky about Europe

I more often get the impression that it’s the other way around. As if the fact that there is more to life than money somehow justifies the fact that much of Western Europe is now economically permanently stuck in ~2008 due to some very misguided policies..

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