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The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

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Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#401

Post by pseudo0 »

vkou wrote: post #349
rayiner wrote: post #289

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think Americans would disagree with the implication that the US has done particularly well over the last 15 years, even though going by nominal dollars that seems to be the case.

Americans with wealth or property have done great for themselves. They currently feel that the economy is in the dumps, but that's just because talking heads on Fox are telling them that it is. They can't articulate why the economy is in the dumps. Americans who are between the ages of 15 and 35 feel like the ladder has been pulled up out of their reach, and they've felt this way for the past decade. Mostly because p…

The top 10% of American households own 89% of US stocks, and the top 1% own 50% of US stocks. The benefits have almost entirely accrued to a small minority at the top. Some of the 35+ cohort are doing exceedingly well, but most just have a primary residence (with a mortgage), some limited retirement savings, and maybe a small investment account. Those people are still working for a living, and likely have experienced real wage stagnation or decline. So media pundits claiming "the economy is great!" really does not match up with the typical experience. The stock market is not the economy.

https://www.cnbc.com/2021/10/18/the-wealthiest-10percent-of-...

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#402

Post by seydor »

janalsncm wrote: post #158

This is a bit of a frame trap. Here’s another metric: ==2021== Life expectancy in EU: 80 Life expectancy in US: 76 ==Rolling back to 2008== Life expectancy in EU: 79 Life expectancy in US: 78 What’s the point? Maybe GDP isn’t the most important indicator. The US can double it’s GDP by making healthcare more expensive and extracting every last dime from the elderly, but can it actually improve quality of life for peop…

So they live less and STILL make twice the income?

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#403

Post by ChatGTP »

throwawaylinux wrote: post #385
janalsncm wrote: post #158

This is a bit of a frame trap. Here’s another metric: ==2021== Life expectancy in EU: 80 Life expectancy in US: 76 ==Rolling back to 2008== Life expectancy in EU: 79 Life expectancy in US: 78 What’s the point? Maybe GDP isn’t the most important indicator. The US can double it’s GDP by making healthcare more expensive and extracting every last dime from the elderly, but can it actually improve quality of life for peop…

What is a "frame trap", and why do people get irrationally upset by the US doing well at something or the EU doing poorly? This post is about GDP growth. What has life expectancy got to do with it, and how are you contributing to any discussion? Has anybody here said that "GDP is the most important indicator"?

I actually think it's the opposite, I always see Americans getting really snarky about Europe, I could go back and find plenty of examples but I have better things to do.

Personally I think average Americans have a hard time imaging a world where there is more to life than money.

Ultimately whenever I see these "murica" centric posts, I remember them flying in emergency medical supplies from China and everybody being upset about how the worlds greatest super power didn't have enough supplies for their own medical staff.

Stay humble.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#404

Post by Alupis »

bandyaboot wrote: post #310
Alupis wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You've offered zero details about why this is incorrect. You've just asserted the meme that it's "obviously wrong"... There is no good faith argument that exists to prove this incorrect.

I’m looking, but I must be missing the part where you provided details to justify your own assertion of it being obviously true.

TFA, among other economic articles, statistics, etc support this assertion.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#405

Post by locallost »

nforgerit wrote: post #30

German here. Austerity? Over-regulation? An oligopoly of tech-incompetent local enterprises? Just guessing here. As a student in 2007, I started being an avid follower of what Big Tech was doing and was flabbergasted that local tech enterprises didn't seem to notice or change anything. In CS at university they didn't teach programming (only as an aside) but all the funny theoretical OOP fluff that the community right…

None of the above. The true reason is that Germans are too conservative to invest in tech. You cannot have startups without investors and Germans will keep money in the bank, buy real estate, even invest in index funds, but startups give them too little of a guarantee of a return. You can remove overregulation, whatever it may consist of, but there will still be no funding at least not when compared to the US.

But German economy is actually fine, moving slow and steady is their way and it works for them. I also don't really think universities should spend so much time on "programming", they are not vocational training programs. I wrote software and got paid for it before I studied, and didn't go to a university to learn that. If there's one thing German society can do with young people it's to teach them to take more risks. But programming can be learned from a book.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#406

Post by throwaway4good »

dogma1138 wrote: post #101
mrb wrote: post #96

Note this chart shows nominal dollars, not PPP-adjusted. The EU has certainly kept up with the US when looking at PPP GDP from 2008 to 2022: US grew from $14.8T to $25.5T EU grew from $14.3T to $24.3T What that means is that the prices of goods are inflated in the US compared to similar goods in the EU. That's all. Want something interesting? Look at China who grew from $10.0T to $30.3T over the same period (!) Sourc…

No one uses PPP for measuring growth, GDP PPP can increase whilst your economy contracts. PPP isn’t a good measure for population’s wealth or quality of life especially for developed economies either. The economy of the US is still twice that of the EU and its global purchasing power has also pretty much doubled.

Sorry mate - I think you got that one turned on its head.

The common (and relevant measure) is real gdp growth or growth minus inflation. (And per capita if that is your concern.)

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#407

Post by fragmede »

ChatGTP wrote: post #403
throwawaylinux wrote: post #385

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What is a "frame trap", and why do people get irrationally upset by the US doing well at something or the EU doing poorly? This post is about GDP growth. What has life expectancy got to do with it, and how are you contributing to any discussion? Has anybody here said that "GDP is the most important indicator"?

I actually think it's the opposite, I always see Americans getting really snarky about Europe, I could go back and find plenty of examples but I have better things to do. Personally I think average Americans have a hard time imaging a world where there is more to life than money. Ultimately whenever I see these "murica" centric posts, I remember them flying in emergency medical supplies from China and everybody being…

Given how pervasive money is in everything we do, even just hiking in nature (how much did those hiking boots cost you? Did you get a cheap pair or an expensive pair? How long will they last until you have to buy a new pair?), or just having friends over to chat (their money status has an effect on how they're doing). There's more to life than money, but it's pretty central.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#408

Post by bamboozled »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #32
midasuni wrote: post #5

All “growth” in gdp seems to go to rich people. Normal people have seen stagnant wages and increased costs from the owners. Why should I care if gdp isn’t increasing when I don’t see any gains whether it does or not?

What about: - Your access to mRNA vaccines - Your access to cleaner air due to electric car adoption - Ditto for energy security and renewable sources of electricity - Your chance of dying in a car going down due to new safety features - Your access to crazy advanced cancer treatments that are making progress at almost miraculous paces - Your much improved ability to work from home, cutting out ~2 hours of commuting…

The pace things are improving is exponential.

You're off your tree.

Coal usage is at an all time high while the climate is collapsing. We're living on an exponential growing crisis is maybe what you should be saying.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#409

Post by bamboozled »

onlyrealcuzzo wrote: post #57
troupo wrote: post #47

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The world is dramatically better, but it already was dramatically better 10 years ago, and in the developed countries a lot of those improvements stagnated or are slowly rolling back due to stagnant wages, insane costs of living etc.

The world is getting almost noticeably better by the day - due to all the progress people make every day, building on top of past progress. If you're staying "stagnant" and the world is getting better, you're better off. Even if you're declining, you can be better off. If you think poor people in the US and Europe have it rough today, you should read up about what it was like to be a normal person in the 1600s in Eur…

When people use the term progress, what is meant by it? What are we progressing towards exactly? Utopia?

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#410

Post by thatguy0900 »

seydor wrote: post #402
janalsncm wrote: post #158

This is a bit of a frame trap. Here’s another metric: ==2021== Life expectancy in EU: 80 Life expectancy in US: 76 ==Rolling back to 2008== Life expectancy in EU: 79 Life expectancy in US: 78 What’s the point? Maybe GDP isn’t the most important indicator. The US can double it’s GDP by making healthcare more expensive and extracting every last dime from the elderly, but can it actually improve quality of life for peop…

So they live less and STILL make twice the income?

People retire and not only don't have an income, they can take money back from the government. Especially if you live in a place where the government actually has some safety nets set in place for you. If your goal is maximum money earned per person per year you probably want them to die at like 65 or something.
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