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The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

nextcity.org

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Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#51

Post by aiappreciator »

EGreg wrote: post #40
renewiltord wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A bit self-evident, isn't it? No one is going to give you capital so that you can hire workers to seize the capital.

How about the workers and the customers ?? That’s why I am a fan of crowdfunding with utility tokens. People on HN have to realize there is more to capitalism than shareholder capitalism and extracting rents from ecosystems ;-)

The customers want to donate money to local taxi operators and drivers? The taxi drivers who barely understand what open source is?

This can work, but definitely not through crowdfunding. This better works through say business associations, say a national taxi association (composed of all small/regional taxi operators). That association can allocate a small portion of the funds to build this open taxi framework.

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#52

Post by mr-pink »

pinkcan wrote: post #50
mr-pink wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

i guess i'm the only one who never had a problem

parent gave five examples of issues they found while using a taxi in the manner you described you could have just believed them instead of being antagonistic about it, this is especially unnecessary given the topic has a history that supports the experiences the parent poster listed

it's funny the person is upset about some taxi driver cheating them, but okay with paying tribute to some app developer middleman with every trip

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#53

Post by throwawaymaths »

cbhl wrote: post #26

$5.9M in revenue over 162294 trips works out to about $36/trip. Average of 444 trips/day. $5.2M in driver wages over $60k/driver/year (conservatively, $30/hour * 8 hours/day * 250 work days/year) works out to about 86 drivers; less if they pay each driver more or each driver works longer hours; more if drivers aren't full time. Each driver gets, like, 5 fares a day. (I would also believe $120k/driver/year and 10 fare…

Lyft driver typically takes 7-10 rides a day.

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#54

Post by throwawaymaths »

mr-pink wrote: post #38
ars wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Tried that. Didn't work well - you never knew if you could find one, they often refused trips to places they didn't like, they would cheat you on the fare, and it was impossible to get one in a less popular area without calling, and you never knew if they were actually going to come.

i guess i'm the only one who never had a problem

You're not black, you're not gay and being driven by a socially conservative immigrant, etc.

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#55

Post by TheSmiddy »

mattmcknight wrote: post #11
ramesh31 wrote: post #2

>Scheduling trips is a tricky calculation, and it all comes down to routing — you want drivers to spend as much of their shift as they can actually driving clients around, but you have to leave enough time in-between trips so the driver isn’t late for their next client. So far, the only way to do this successfully has been by using a team of human dispatchers, though the co-op is working on an automated solution usin…

I don't think having "drivers spend as much of their shift as they can driving clients" is the best objective function. It seems like you should want to get customers to their destinations as quickly as possible, not have cars driving around slowly to maximize client drive time. "You have to leave enough time in-between trips so the driver isn’t late for their next client." also seems bizarre, as you should just be r…

It's a perfectly fine objective if you trust your drivers to meet a minimum standard of a good job. It won't work in an adversarial system like Uber where drivers are just numbers but if the drivers are also invested in the success of the platform it's fine.

Given that drivers are driving the shorted distance/time route at the speed limit, treating customers with respect, arriving on time to scheduled pickups, etc. The next thing to focus on is scheduling/filling orders such that drive time is maximised.

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#56

Post by EGreg »

_oghd wrote: post #48
EGreg wrote: post #42

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is no seizing here. FOSS is available to all, no one actually loses the means of production. It’s “distributism” rather than “socialism”. Anyway — FOSS can be crowdfunded by selling utility tokens to future customers. If you are worried about the SEC, then just use a broker-dealer like Rialto Markets to help you do Reg CF.

can you elaborate on the difference between your definitions of distributism and socialism?

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Distributism

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#57

Post by EGreg »

aiappreciator wrote: post #51
EGreg wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How about the workers and the customers ?? That’s why I am a fan of crowdfunding with utility tokens. People on HN have to realize there is more to capitalism than shareholder capitalism and extracting rents from ecosystems ;-)

The customers want to donate money to local taxi operators and drivers? The taxi drivers who barely understand what open source is? This can work, but definitely not through crowdfunding. This better works through say business associations, say a national taxi association (composed of all small/regional taxi operators). That association can allocate a small portion of the funds to build this open taxi framework.

Donate? Customers would BUY utility tokens to use later for rides

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#58

Post by safety1st »

throwaway892238 wrote: post #49
djbusby wrote: post #16

Oh man, a friend and I were thinking of building out a FOSS Uber clone for this exact purpose. Would allow a bunch of smaller regional Ubers to exist. Couldn't get funding and I don't have free time to write that much code. Hope these folks are able to succeed. FOSS is a great path for workers to seize the means of production.

> FOSS is a great path for workers to seize the means of production. It's... not. Open Source is not a business model, nor a collective organizing principle, bargaining process, etc. It's just source code a couple of people have commit access to. I'm all in favor of everybody sharing source code too, but let's not pretend it's magic. Building and sustaining any kind of organization takes work , and has nothing to do…

FOSS absolutely does have an effect on how your movement is organized and if you depend on it it can be an accelerator.

But FOSS doesn't create some kind of socialist utopia as some people seem to believe. It does something much more mundane yet infinitely more valuable in our fractured modern world: it unites bitter enemies and gets them to collaborate.

Look at the contributors to the Linux kernel, which even includes Microsoft now. It's hard to imagine any other force which could unite all those people and businesses under a common cause. But thanks to the GPL, even as their wars with each other continue they are all contributing resources to the public good.

It's so popular these days to flame and dehumanize the other side of any debate but all that does is destroy. FOSS builds and extends humanity's common heritage. It won't win the war for you but it will redirect your energies into creation and ensure that you leave something good behind.

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#59

Post by safety1st »

renewiltord wrote: post #35
throwaway413 wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Can you elaborate? Curious.

A bit self-evident, isn't it? No one is going to give you capital so that you can hire workers to seize the capital.

The thing about software is it's remarkably cheap in the grand scheme of things. To choose two random modern examples, Signal and Lemmy both got their start with a little bit of funding from nonprofits. Signal then basically funded its bills with a Whatsapp consulting contract and now it pays for a CEO that goes around doing prime TV appearances where she shoots down politicians who are trying to rob you of your freedom. That's a hell of a story arc.

Re: The Drivers Cooperative: New York’s driver-owned ride-hailing app

#60

Post by AlotOfReading »

tootie wrote: post #46
AlotOfReading wrote: post #18

Scheduled rides are a neat strategy, but they're tough for consumers to use effectively. For one thing, if you're attempting to schedule a last mile ride after you get off the subway, your arrival at the pickup point could be subject to minor delays. But on the network side, a few minutes on each ride impacts efficiency in a major way. Personally, my biggest (non ethical) issue with Uber/Lyft et al. is that they're u…

In NYC the volumes are humongous. They could probably build a successful business just going back and forth from airports.

They could have a successful business that way, but I'm not sure it's one that can handle 9,000+ drivers like the article calls out with any sort of equitable scheduling. For context, that's more drivers than the entire city of San Francisco typically has at peak. Maybe I'm just vastly underestimating the size of the NYC airport market though.
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