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The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

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Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#381

Post by nonethewiser »

dougmwne wrote: post #172
blibble wrote: post #151

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pretty certain it's the germans that decided to use the russian gas meanwhile the US was pretty upset about the idea

It was economical to buy the Russian gas delivered by pipeline. The US wanted to sell its more expensive LNG. And it ended up getting its wish after it supported a western aligned Ukraine and while no one wants to claim responsibility for blowing up nordstream, someone definitely blew it up and it helped cement the US as the gas supplier of Europe. I think the message is clear that it’s best not to upset the US.

It was economical for Germany to partner with Russia at the expense of Ukraine.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#382

Post by ChatGTP »

AbrahamParangi wrote: post #304
janalsncm wrote: post #158

This is a bit of a frame trap. Here’s another metric: ==2021== Life expectancy in EU: 80 Life expectancy in US: 76 ==Rolling back to 2008== Life expectancy in EU: 79 Life expectancy in US: 78 What’s the point? Maybe GDP isn’t the most important indicator. The US can double it’s GDP by making healthcare more expensive and extracting every last dime from the elderly, but can it actually improve quality of life for peop…

These stats drive me up the wall because the US is more diverse than every single European country . The life expectancy in California is 81 and in Alabama it’s 74. That’s the difference between the UK and like, Latvia. This matters because when you look at these crude aggregate stats, people naively assume that it means that everything is a bit worse but the actual American story is usually more like broad prosperit…

Have you been to Europe? It's really diverse.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#384

Post by KingOfCoders »

kryptiskt wrote: post #40

The economic engine of the Eurozone, Germany, keeps stepping on the brakes because they are so obsessed with their competitiveness and running huge trade surpluses. If the German consumers would finally be allowed to a bigger share of all the gains from their productivity it would be good for the whole of Europe as the biggest problem is weak demand. But no, we can't have that because then their trade surplus would s…

Germany has slowed down because the productivity gains from 20 years ago ("Agenda 2010") have run out of steam (Merkel didn't do anything for productivity for 16 years), more recently consumer demand has decreased because Germany was hit by high gas costs (everyone heats with gas) and the current government increased costs for consumers (e.G. everyone needs to replace their gas heating - driven by the minister for the economy, madness! - who is a vice chancellor and therefor minister for economy but needs to play to his green base and does environment policty instead of economics) - so consumers have a very negative view of the future and are very cautious with their money.

Dropping German consumer demand has nothing to do with competitiveness and trade surpluses.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#385

Post by throwawaylinux »

janalsncm wrote: post #158

This is a bit of a frame trap. Here’s another metric: ==2021== Life expectancy in EU: 80 Life expectancy in US: 76 ==Rolling back to 2008== Life expectancy in EU: 79 Life expectancy in US: 78 What’s the point? Maybe GDP isn’t the most important indicator. The US can double it’s GDP by making healthcare more expensive and extracting every last dime from the elderly, but can it actually improve quality of life for peop…

What is a "frame trap", and why do people get irrationally upset by the US doing well at something or the EU doing poorly?

This post is about GDP growth. What has life expectancy got to do with it, and how are you contributing to any discussion? Has anybody here said that "GDP is the most important indicator"?

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#386

Post by nonethewiser »

cbsmith wrote: post #368
e4e5 wrote: post #232

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand this argument. If everyone has become more productive, why would wages rise? Wouldn't we see that as inflation then? I think the rise of productivity is more seen in the growth of the GDP

So if employees are more productive, you would naturally expect all of the benefits of that increased productivity to go to their employers? I'm curious as to your reasoning about why people do anything other than the absolute minimum to receive their paycheck.

I think this is a bit uncharitable

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#387

Post by Turskarama »

codedokode wrote: post #231
mrb wrote: post #122

Earlier quoted context omitted.

" GDP PPP can increase whilst your economy contracts. " Still, if PPP GDP increases, with all else being equal (eg. stable population) it would imply the standard of living is increasing. That is why PPP GDP captures a more accurate measure of the real world. Said another way, what truly matters isn't "GDP growth", but changes in purchasing power/quality of life.

PPP is a misleading figure. If your PPP-adjusted income is 2 times higher than someone's else does it mean that you can buy 2 times more MacBooks or trips to Korea?

Every statistic is misleading if you read it wrong enough. Typically, I'd say GDP is _more_ misleading than PPP in almost all cases.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#388

Post by nonethewiser »

scaredginger wrote: post #286
gruez wrote: post #235

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>In theory since 2008 real wages have been increasing... in practice, housing and other costs like childcare have increased astronomically during that period negating any real gains. That's categorically not true. Adjusting for inflation, wages today are up 6.8% compared to 2008. [1] https://fred.stlouisfed.org/series/LES1252881600Q

Do you understand that you've just linked the numbers that are being criticised without addressing the criticisms?

That doesnt seem to be the case. The original claim is there was no wage increases but he showed there is 7%. Please elaborate.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#389

Post by nonethewiser »

conjecTech wrote: post #263
nonethewiser wrote: post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Despite a shrinking economy. If we’re measuring economy size we’re not measuring purchasing power. I cant tell if you recognize this and just think we shouldn’t care about economy size or if you are actually conflating PPP with economy size. Mainly because you keep presenting it as a rebuttal to claims about economy size.

Size is denominated in terms of some measure. You don’t eat dollars, and you can’t build a house out of one. GDP has doubled, but so have US prices. Does that mean the economy is actually stronger? Using PPP simply chooses to denominate GDP in terms of things other that fiat currency.

You have not clarified whatsoever and at this point it doesnt seem like you want to or even know.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#390

Post by flangola7 »

_Parfait_ wrote: post #119
flangola7 wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We don't care about size of economy, we care about aspects of daily life of the average person.

..Ok but we're talking about the size of the economy you do know that right? Did you read even the headline?

The title of a headline does not dictate what I get to think and talk about. I'm not twelve.
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