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The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

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Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#301

Post by scythe »

cypress66 wrote: post #167
janalsncm wrote: post #158

This is a bit of a frame trap. Here’s another metric: ==2021== Life expectancy in EU: 80 Life expectancy in US: 76 ==Rolling back to 2008== Life expectancy in EU: 79 Life expectancy in US: 78 What’s the point? Maybe GDP isn’t the most important indicator. The US can double it’s GDP by making healthcare more expensive and extracting every last dime from the elderly, but can it actually improve quality of life for peop…

Most of that life expectancy gap is due to obesity I'd guess.

Obesity has also increased in the EU.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#302

Post by freetime2 »

tnel77 wrote: post #115
freetime2 wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Thank you. Twitter is terrible when it comes to cherry picking stats out of context.

Ironically posted as a reply to a comment cherry picking stats.

Fair enough - my comment complaining about the quality of content on Twitter was admittedly pretty low quality.

When I said "Twitter is terrible when it comes to cherry picking stats out of context", I was referring to the fact that the Tweet doesn't link to its source, and that it only shows 2 years (instead of a line chart which would show all the years in between). It also doesn't make any attempt to interpret the data (e.g. why or what it means).

I view the parent comment as adding context. They linked to the source of their data and also included their interpretation - which other people can then agree or disagree with instead of having to guess what they meant. So yes I think this is a much more constructive post than the original tweet.

Note: I now see that they linked to the source WSJ article beneath the original tweet, but that was not clear to me when I made my earlier comment (and I see other people on Twitter asking about the source so it's not just me who missed it). I still think that twitter in an inferior platform for discussing nuanced topics like economics than, say, HN.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#303

Post by weard_beard »

dogma1138 wrote: post #200
kranke155 wrote: post #182

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know people who lived in the USSR in the 1970s and missed it.

Good for them, I know plenty others who didn’t including my entire family. That still isn’t the point, the quality of life in the USSR wasn’t a close 2nd to the US in fact when the USSR economy started to fall apart in the late 70’s and 80’s it too switched to PPP because hey our bread is cheap even if you need to stand in line to get it. And Guyana today isn’t a better place to live in than France or Canada, and Bul…

Don't you dare besmirch the name of Doctor Sausage!

https://tasteofartisan.com/doctors-sausage/

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#304

Post by AbrahamParangi »

janalsncm wrote: post #158

This is a bit of a frame trap. Here’s another metric: ==2021== Life expectancy in EU: 80 Life expectancy in US: 76 ==Rolling back to 2008== Life expectancy in EU: 79 Life expectancy in US: 78 What’s the point? Maybe GDP isn’t the most important indicator. The US can double it’s GDP by making healthcare more expensive and extracting every last dime from the elderly, but can it actually improve quality of life for peop…

These stats drive me up the wall because the US is more diverse than every single European country. The life expectancy in California is 81 and in Alabama it’s 74. That’s the difference between the UK and like, Latvia.

This matters because when you look at these crude aggregate stats, people naively assume that it means that everything is a bit worse but the actual American story is usually more like broad prosperity with some truly awful outcomes for anyone who falls through the (very wide) cracks.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#305

Post by sonicshadow »

zerodensity wrote: post #300
sonicshadow wrote: post #181

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Think you're intentionally misreading what I'm saying, thanks for that

Am I? I think not. You are saying that you would rather live a shorter time in good health than a longer time being unhealthy at the end. I am saying that the day will come when you start to deteriorate, get aches, getting slower, maybe even critically ill. During all that you will most likely still not want to die. People suffer in every age group most of them don't want to die. Why do you think you would?

It seems like you know me better than i do!

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#306

Post by evantbyrne »

habosa wrote: post #209

The US is the best place in the world to accumulate wealth. Unfortunately that does not make it the best place to live.

Quality of life varies significantly based on where you are in the US. There are definitely smaller cities that offer high standards of living–if that's your speed.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#307

Post by FpUser »

blibble wrote: post #265
FpUser wrote: post #257

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>"and if he wins then Eastern Europe is next in line" I doubt Putin is suicidal. Eastern Europe is in NATO, hence protected.

it'll never be so obvious that NATO can declare it as an attack you've seen the playbook in ukraine twice now there will be an russian speaking minority in estonia/lithuania/... that will that rebel against anti russian oppression, guerilla warfare against the authorities, then they'll hold an rigged referendum, then a decade later the Russian government will formally annex what they've effectively controlled for yea…

[flagged]

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#308

Post by esperent »

Amiable5326 wrote: post #273
mrb wrote: post #96

Note this chart shows nominal dollars, not PPP-adjusted. The EU has certainly kept up with the US when looking at PPP GDP from 2008 to 2022: US grew from $14.8T to $25.5T EU grew from $14.3T to $24.3T What that means is that the prices of goods are inflated in the US compared to similar goods in the EU. That's all. Want something interesting? Look at China who grew from $10.0T to $30.3T over the same period (!) Sourc…

[flagged]

Attack ideas, not people. I don't care who invented GDP or PPP, only if they are adequate proxies for economic strength and quality of life.

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#309

Post by dogma1138 »

LudwigNagasena wrote: post #293
dogma1138 wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one uses PPP for measuring growth, GDP PPP can increase whilst your economy contracts. PPP isn’t a good measure for population’s wealth or quality of life especially for developed economies either. The economy of the US is still twice that of the EU and its global purchasing power has also pretty much doubled.

> GDP PPP can increase whilst your economy contracts. So can GDP. > PPP isn’t a good measure for population’s wealth or quality of life especially for developed economies either. Why isn't it a good measure? Why is it worse than pure GDP? > The economy of the US is still twice that of the EU and its global purchasing power has also pretty much doubled. The GDP of the US is twice of that of the EU. How does paying $20…

> So can GDP.

No, not really as exchange rate fluctuations are avoided using constant international dollar benchmarks.

> Why isn't it a good measure? Why is it worse than pure GDP?

This been explained multiple times in this thread already including a link to the OECD FAQ on GDP PPP.

Nominal GDP isn’t a measure of individual wealth either, it is however a very good indicator of national economic growth.

>The GDP of the US is twice of that of the EU. How does paying $2000 for a 50 sq. feet box makes your economy bigger?

GDP PPP doesn’t include housing costs, at least not directly it includes a component which is called imbued rent which tends to grossly underestimate the actual cost of housing in a given country.

Housing in the EU is generally more expensive than in the US both to rent and to buy nearly every country has a massive housing shortage and inflated prices.

My partner bought a flat in Poland as an investment in March this year for the equivalent sum of ~£160,000, it’s a 48 sq/m 2 bed flat.

The 2nd stage of the development on an adjacent plot is starting now with the prices around £180-190K for an equivalent property.

And this is in a village 50km from Krakow… (Bochnia).

Re: The US economy and the EU were the same size in 2008, the US is now nearly 2X

#310

Post by bandyaboot »

Alupis wrote: post #150
tivert wrote: post #124

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> You're missing the point. No I'm not. I know exactly the point you were making. I'm disputing it. The problem is the devil is in the details, and both the tired metaphor and your defense of it leave those details unspecified.

You've offered zero details about why this is incorrect. You've just asserted the meme that it's "obviously wrong"... There is no good faith argument that exists to prove this incorrect.

I’m looking, but I must be missing the part where you provided details to justify your own assertion of it being obviously true.
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