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The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

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Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#331

A land value tax would fix this. https://www.thebalancemoney.com/what-is-a-land-value-tax-520...

The solution to every problem: adding another tax

The stuff I've seen about LVT is that it's supposed to replace all other taxes with it, as opposed to taxing income/work and property (making improvements on the land, making it and nearby land more valuable).

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#332

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was curious how much bigger the real stadium parking was. SimCity: https://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/simcity/e/... Real Stadium: https://i.imgur.com/KwT1T53.png

It's not saying much that stadiums are weird in a way that games don't model (edited). A stadium's audience loves to drive to places, that's the purpose of the destination, to watch a thing then eat garlic fries and drink and drive home, so whatever. I like the author's politics and agree with her sentiments. But if the author of this thing thinks she can run a business on Main Street without parking, by all means, s…

> But if the author of this thing thinks she can run a business on Main Street without parking, by all means, she should go and do that.

The whole point is that this is illegal. Let’s make it legal again and see what happens. :)

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#333

Earlier quoted context omitted.

ten thousand dollars??? Look I get that I probably don’t do cars the way other people do cars, but like - ten thousand a year? I spend maybe $800 on gas in a year. What are these people doing? Buying a new set of tires every Christmas? Yearly visits to a detailing shop or something?? I mean like no offense but if you guys were spending twenty thousand dollars annually on cars… that’s on you. You don’t need to live th…

Your number seems very you-specific. Back-of-the-envelope math, seems like you drive I totally believe that it is possible that these are indeed your costs but I'll give you a counter-example. My Highlander was about $50K all in. Let's say I keep it for 10 years, that's $5 per year right there. Insurance is about $1.5K so we're at $6.5K and that's a good deal for around here. If we drive into Manhattan on a weekday,…

Half of your cost is your $50k car choice, though, and doesn't include resale value of around $15k (I'm looking at 2013 highlander prices. It's probably more because you chose a bunch of upgrades, see below). Drops your yearly costs by $1.5k right there.

Get a reasonable car for $25k-35k and your costs drop significantly. Hell, your $50k number means you chose to have a bunch of upgrades. The base MSRP is $36k, and I'm seeing dealer advertised prices of $37k near me. I have to go all the way up to the "Platinum" tier to find $50k prices.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#334

There's an interesting interview with a designer of SimCity, where he discusses parking: Geoff Manaugh: While you were making those measurements of different real-world cities, did you discover any surprising patterns or spatial relationships Librande: Yes, definitely. I think the biggest one was the parking lots. When I started measuring out our local grocery store, which I don’t think of as being that big, I was bl…

The excess of cars in cities is bad enough, but I do wonder whether underground parking would at least help. It can be more expensive, especially for taller buildings, but it would eliminate the eyesore and recoup the valuable urban real estate and potentially free up the streets. Realistically, we have to accept that we've spent almost a century creating a situation that has enabled car dominance and that many peopl…

"but I do wonder whether underground parking would at least help"

Our local Tesco (Yeovil, Somerset, UK) had a fairly large car park, and a rather strange split level two storey thing at the periphery which seems to have been designed and built for dodgy purposes and is minimally used! Around 20 odd years ago they simply put a second storey on most of it.

You need to provide walkways anyway, so you minimally encroach on those with concrete encased steel pillars (mostly for fire retardant but handy extra section anyway). It's a pretty cheap way to nearly double your parking.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#335

> parking is perhaps the greatest determinant of whether people decide to make a trip in a car or by some other means Surely that can't be true in general - I would think the quality/convenience/cost of the alternative would be by far the biggest factor (but yes, you could argue that's rolling multiple factors into one). But as an example, plenty of offices I've worked at over the years have offered free or cheap par…

> I would think the quality/convenience/cost of the alternative would be by far the biggest factor

The alternatives almost never beat a car in quality, convenience, and cost (minus parking costs, which is the point). The exceptions are very specific cases, like inter-Manhattan travel at certain times of the day, for example, where $2.75 can get you most places faster than your own car and cheaper than a cab.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#336

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know multiple people who bought houses 45 minutes from work that made way, way more money than needed for those houses. They WANTED to be in the middle of nowhere. They could have had a house 11 minutes away with good schools and access to nature, but they choose 45 to be isolated. They live in their cars.

I wish I was further out of the city. I think if actual self-driving cars arrive, they will fuel sprawl like nothing else before. I wouldn't mind a long commute if I could sleep or work or chill out as my car drove me to work.

I think this is actually a perfectly legitimate point of view if people are paying for the externalities: 1) CO2 emissions 2) paying more for road usage.

Everyone has different preferences and we should be free to fulfill them.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#337

Earlier quoted context omitted.

A quick web search puts local underground parking garages including necessary street alterations at about 1.7x the cost of surface parking, per parking square. Not sure if that falls within the purview of enormously more expensive.

That doesn't sound reasonable. The figures I found say it's 2.5-30x the cost. https://www.fixr.com/costs/build-parking-garage

And the real cost of building parking in a residential building isn't the cost of the concrete and painted lines -- but in the opportunity cost of not being able to build / sell more units in the space occupied by cars.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#338
post #255

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Since there is more space, you'd expect that the market would allocate more of it for parking where needs be and that you don't need the government dictating parking minimums. Also, not all space is equal: even in the US, well-connected space with lots of amenities like the downtowns of cities is not infinite.

The market allocates only as much as users can bear, which is about epsilon above the line of "for average user, the parking situation is so bad and unbearable that they chose to go without the service". Anything above it is money left on the table.

Japan has no street parking (and the occasional public lot run by the city) and I never felt this to be the case. You're right, there's no expectation of driving into a massive parking lot everywhere I go, but instead there are convenient paid lots at pretty much any trip destination. The only times these things get booked out is during big events when transit fills in the gaps anyway.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#339

> parking is perhaps the greatest determinant of whether people decide to make a trip in a car or by some other means Surely that can't be true in general - I would think the quality/convenience/cost of the alternative would be by far the biggest factor (but yes, you could argue that's rolling multiple factors into one). But as an example, plenty of offices I've worked at over the years have offered free or cheap par…

> I would think the quality/convenience/cost of the alternative would be by far the biggest factor The alternatives almost never beat a car in quality, convenience, and cost (minus parking costs, which is the point). The exceptions are very specific cases, like inter-Manhattan travel at certain times of the day, for example, where $2.75 can get you most places faster than your own car and cheaper than a cab.

It's not just inter Manhattan travel, getting anywhere on an express line is surely faster than a car a lot of the time.

I can't read a book or completely zone out while driving my car either, there must be some value to being able to do that on a train.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#340
post #330

Earlier quoted context omitted.

So I guess your point is you can buy just as much square footage in the city, provided an unlimited budget. Nice to live in a world where a $2M house is a normal home price. I definitely don't live anywhere near that. So for me to live in that kind of an area, I'd probably need...a much smaller house and probably a shared wall.

And they are priced like that because there is a limited supply... because they are illegal to build in the USA...

You may be surprised to find out but the house we're talking about isn't in the US.

Also, just curious, what does a 2,700sqft single family house in London go for? Or Copenhagen? Or other very walkable European cities? Super cheap because they're not the US I presume?

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