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The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

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Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#201

Post by spencerchubb »

cscurmudgeon wrote: post #163
catgary wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think anti-car activists would do great to mod SimCity to have realistic parking lots.

Why not go all the way to the source of the problem to make it realistic? E.g., NIMBYism https://www.nytimes.com/2021/11/09/opinion/democrats-blue-st...

And the root cause of NIMBYism is the public goods dilemma. Everyone would benefit if more housing were built, but nobody wants more built near their land.

The solution is not as simple as "Just stop electing NIMBYs!" because NIMBYism is a Nash equilibrium.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#202

Post by iso1631 »

davidw wrote: post #156
catgary wrote: post #121

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I think anti-car activists would do great to mod SimCity to have realistic parking lots.

I don't think many people are truly anti-car activists. Just that we need to redimension their absolute centrality to so many policies and budgets. I'm involved in pro-housing politics and it's just amazing how many people are like "well, ok, sure, people need a place to live and all, but let's think FIRST about where to store the automobiles. If that works out, then I guess we can build some housing". They don't say…

In the UK we build houses without enough parking and the whole area becomes horrendous. The idea I get from reading about US "pro housing" people is that if you don't provide parking, people will still have a car and still park.

In reality in the UK every patch of open space, including pavements (sidewalks) become car storage facilities. housing estates with 4 bed houses with just 1 car parking space (plus a garage which nobody users to store a car) end up with 1 or 2 cars parked on the pavement in addition to the drive, houses in towns converted to HMOs (house of multiple occupancy, because professionals can't really afford a 1 bed flat in the UK) with 4 adults in mean 4 cars parked on the roads.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#204

Post by doctorpangloss »

nharada wrote: post #115
UtopiaPunk wrote: post #30

There's an interesting interview with a designer of SimCity, where he discusses parking: Geoff Manaugh: While you were making those measurements of different real-world cities, did you discover any surprising patterns or spatial relationships Librande: Yes, definitely. I think the biggest one was the parking lots. When I started measuring out our local grocery store, which I don’t think of as being that big, I was bl…

I was curious how much bigger the real stadium parking was. SimCity: https://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/simcity/e/... Real Stadium: https://i.imgur.com/KwT1T53.png

It's not saying much that stadiums are weird in a way that games don't model (edited). A stadium's audience loves to drive to places, that's the purpose of the destination, to watch a thing then eat garlic fries and drink and drive home, so whatever.

I like the author's politics and agree with her sentiments. But if the author of this thing thinks she can run a business on Main Street without parking, by all means, she should go and do that. It gives me "I'm going to release my app for low end Android devices" energy. People who spend money, especially on the alcohol and jewelry on which Main St thrives, really fucking love to drive.

The most authentic system to me in Sim City was starting in debt, which I understand few players do. Then, it makes most sense to pause time and spend 100% of your money on day one, because services can be paid in deficit but improvements cannot. So why waste positive balance on services you can keep on with deficit spending? This strategy brings you the greatest ROI and the greatest tax base growth.

The micro of like, how many square feet of X does it take to simulate system Y... I don't know, who cares. The minmaxing people on YouTube make fascinating content re: urban design ideas, but it's not like it's grounded in reality.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#205

Post by jeddy3 »

jimbob21 wrote: post #176
nharada wrote: post #115

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I was curious how much bigger the real stadium parking was. SimCity: https://oyster.ignimgs.com/mediawiki/apis.ign.com/simcity/e/... Real Stadium: https://i.imgur.com/KwT1T53.png

I am surprised that this was surprising to people. Cars are much bigger than people, of course you'd need bigger parking lots than seating space

Assuming no other transportation alternative, and single person per car as well I guess?

Not assuming that, it's not that obvious how big parking needs to be.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#206

Post by jeddy3 »

david2ndaccount wrote: post #132
Cockbrand wrote: post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Comments like this make me appreciate living in a city that has a pretty comprehensive public transport coverage, and where bicycling is at least tolerable. The city you describe seems to be only usable by car.

Many cities in the US are only usable by car. You can’t just leap from a car-based city to a non-car-based city, you have to provide transitionary options (also even car-optional cities still have parking garages).

Sure, but many cities in the world are not in the US.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#207

Post by ubermonkey »

My whole life I've struggled with the need for cars in the places I've lived. Very few US cities have the right infrastructure to go car-free, and the places I personally have lived feature such unrelentingly hot summers that going anywhere without AC is pretty much a nonstarter.

But it exists as a low-grade "well this sucks, but I can't do much about it" fact of existence, like hangnails or tax audits. Then, last year, I bought a motorcycle in lieu of us getting a second car, and I found that EVEN WITH the hassles of weather and limited cargo, and EVEN WITH factoring in the need to wear protective gear, the dead solid CERTAINTY that I can park in seconds without being far from my destination makes the bike my preference 80% of the time.

Only 100F or driving rain will make me PICK the car if the logistics of the trip don't demand it for other reasons. The agility, ease of parking, and absurd fuel economy are all huge wins, plus it's always more fun that driving.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#208

Post by brewdad »

mikrl wrote: post #11

I visited metro Detroit for the first time on Saturday and the parking situation was abysmal but this is perhaps understandable in a large city. I thought my small city in Canada was bad! We couldn’t even park downtown since it appears you need to book it in advance and the trip was somewhat spontaneous. I just ended up pulling over (by a no stopping sign ha) on a quiet side street and setting the GPS back to Windsor…

I don't know what you were doing wrong but Detroit has more available parking than just about any American city.

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#209

Post by abdullahkhalids »

TeeWEE wrote: post #5

Come to the Netherlands. Sell your car. Buy a bike. A car is not really a status symbol here. Its more like a liability.

Here are the stats https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_countries_by_vehicles_...

Netherlands has 38th highest cars/capita. Austria, Scotland, Sweden, Denmark, Ireland, Hungary all have lower car ownership numbers. Though not that much lower. Why is this?

Re: The force that shapes everything around us: Parking

#210

Post by abdullahkhalids »

ubermonkey wrote: post #207

My whole life I've struggled with the need for cars in the places I've lived. Very few US cities have the right infrastructure to go car-free, and the places I personally have lived feature such unrelentingly hot summers that going anywhere without AC is pretty much a nonstarter. But it exists as a low-grade "well this sucks, but I can't do much about it" fact of existence, like hangnails or tax audits. Then, last ye…

The problem with bikes is that you are subjecting yourself to a 6x higher deathrate. Thanks partially to the cars next to you on the road.
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