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A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

news.umich.edu

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Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#191

Post by DanHulton »

K0balt wrote: post #169
memetomancer wrote: post #143

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is a frustrating yet common sort of take. Yes, this is simple, as the article clearly points out. Yes it is obvious in retrospect. But did you do anything with your brilliant work besides bodge your terrible car a few more miles down the road? There is value to developing the entire system... to ensuring the keypad mechanism is reasonably robust and tamper proof. There is value to understanding the vehicle as a…

No, really, good for them. But don’t be talking down on my car. That’s just not cool. That beast is the workhorse of the farm and it gets the job done. None of the windows roll down though and it’s hot as hell inside, so it discourages unnecessary use, saving the planet. It rarely sees pavement but it drags what needs to be dragged and it pulls the utility rigs out after they deliver to us.

And that's all well and good, but maybe introspect here for a second? You're upset that your accomplishments aren't being respected, immediately after discounting the accomplishments of others.

The point is that your car's modifications and the university's are similar, but different, particularly in scale and broad robustness, which adds difficulty in ways you may not be appreciating.

$1.2 million may sound like a lot to you, but to pay a team of people to work on, and provide materials for them to work with (especially cars, which generally aren't cheap, especially used cars right now!)... Well, it likely doesn't go as far as you think it does.

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#192

Post by hodgesrm »

alwaysbeconsing wrote: post #146
buro9 wrote: post #98

The problem with this defense is that it is invisible... the thief will only know about it after they've caused external damage trying to get access to the system. I just use a steering wheel lock, one of those bright yellow chunks of steel that bolts onto the steering wheel: https://www.milenco.com/products/automotive-security/automot... This is visible to the theif and just raised the theft effort from "jump these…

"then use a loud angle grinder in a very enclosed space" They don't need to cut the lockbar: > What we knew was that the Club is a hardened steel device that attaches to the steering wheel and the brake pedal to prevent steering and/or braking. What we found out was that a pro thief would carry a short piece of a hacksaw blade to cut through the plastic steering wheel in a couple seconds. They were then able to relea…

The freakonomics folk must have loved this one. They live for unintended consequences. That phrase occurs as expected in the article.

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#193

Post by samstave »

chriskanan wrote: post #158
K0balt wrote: post #84

1.2 million grant for this? Now I’ve seen grift, but come on. I want to hire their grant writer. Literally a relay in the starter lead. This looks like one of my afternoon projects, and I’m not even joking. I have a 1990s montero diesel and it leaks power, and I often forget to disconnect the terminal. So I bought a relay from AliExpress (same one shown in this photo but one size up) and hooked it up with an esp32 an…

Here is the link to the award (I think): https://www.nsf.gov/awardsearch/showAward?AWD_ID=2245223&His... Probably half the award is taken up by indirect costs at the university, leaving the remainder for a few PhD students to be funded, money for the devices, and any studies where they are probably paying participants to use the device. $1.2M doesn't go that far in terms of grants. As far as whether this is a good in…

Curious, what % of costs of a grant are usually consumed by the UNi - are these to pay for equipment, power, lab time, etc?

Or are they slurping funds for other aspects of the uni's operations?

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#194

Post by K0balt »

jaboutboul wrote: post #128
K0balt wrote: post #84

1.2 million grant for this? Now I’ve seen grift, but come on. I want to hire their grant writer. Literally a relay in the starter lead. This looks like one of my afternoon projects, and I’m not even joking. I have a 1990s montero diesel and it leaks power, and I often forget to disconnect the terminal. So I bought a relay from AliExpress (same one shown in this photo but one size up) and hooked it up with an esp32 an…

If you’re already done with development then why not beat them to market?

Because there’s no product market fit here. There are a myriad of far more secure and user friendly alternatives. I briefly investigated the market thinking maybe I had something cool, but there are a thousand better solutions under 20 dollars.

The only way something like this gets traction is “as seen on TV” marketing to naive consumers, and I have no interest in building for that market.

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#195

Post by tguvot »

threeio wrote: post #168
giobox wrote: post #105

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I haven't seen a separate keypad immobilizer (the kind where you put key in ignition and turn, but engine wont start until a pin is entered into a separate keypad in the cabin) since I last sat in a Peugeot 205 in the early 90s - I'd be shocked to see one on anything made in the last decade that isn't a weird aftermarket accessory. I've never seen this on a rental car in Europe/US in recent memory. The pin pads Ford…

Travel to Israel, its in -every- car.

required by insurance

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#197

Post by Scoundreller »

idiotsecant wrote: post #32
Waterluvian wrote: post #14

I knew someone with a shitty pickup truck where he wired a light switch into the fuel pump and hid it under the steering column. The truck would be stolen something like 5 times a year and every time he would find it abandoned a km or so away when the gas in the line ran out. I drove in it once to get lunch and near the beginning the car begins sputtering and he's like, "oh right, you're thirsty" and reached under an…

I did similar, except wired into the ignition circuit and with the control being a little cheap ebay RFID thing with the sensor on the underside of the dash. I kept a little RFID tag on my keys, chuck my keys up onto the dash when i'm ready to go and the truck is started with a pushbutton. I also put a cheater switch in the glove box in case i forgot my RFID tags. In my case it was motivated more by maintenance heada…

I guess this works if you don’t have immobilizers. In Canada they’re mandated, so the ECU is expecting some kind of digital signal from the key before turning on (but sometimes you can just shuck the rf chip inside they key and glue it in the right spot, or uncode it from the écu).

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#198

Post by K0balt »

0xdeadbeefbabe wrote: post #133
StevenXC wrote: post #107

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Speaking as someone who's reviewed for NSF before, I'd have expected this grant to also include resources to get the product to market, which I'm assuming you haven't done.

Well say we give him 30 more minutes? (Also, their device is supposed to be tamper proof. That sounds more difficult)

Hmm. If the can figure out how to make it so I can’t just tear their device out and hook up my own battery cable they might be on to something, but most new cars already come with sophisticated anti tampering measures.

At any rate, good for them. It will be a great learning experience at least.

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#199

Post by AnnikaL »

jjnoakes wrote: post #116
talldatethrow wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

If I know my door is locked, and you get in, I can still shoot you since I know I locked it, thus you'll have the tools somewhere near you showing you broke in. If it's just a code, tons of legal ambiguity comes up. Can a gf shoot her exbf that she gave the keycode to last month?

> Can a gf shoot her exbf that she gave the keycode to last month? How is this different from a physical key?

If anything, it might be easier to change a keycode than to change a lock.

Re: A surprisingly simple way to foil car thieves

#200

Post by firebat45 »

technothrasher wrote: post #173
Ancapistani wrote: post #19

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Super common in simple vehicles used to "run into town" in rural areas. We call them "kill switches". My previous vehicle was a '97 Jeep Wrangler. There were two kill switches installed when I bought it: one down by the driver's seatbelt latch for the fuel pump, and one reachable by inserting your finger into the opening for the 4wd shifter the disabled the starter. Neither was easily visible.

Yup, I put an ignition kill switch in my old Triumph Spitfire behind the dashboard when I was living in a not so great part of town. Just had to reach my hand up behind and flick it. I didn't hide it too hard, figuring anybody that tried to drive away in my Triumph and couldn't get it to start would figure it was just being a typical Triumph.

Cars built with Lucas electrics typically have 3 modes of operation. Off, Dim, and Flicker. Which two of the three end up on your switch is entirely random.
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