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British F-35Bs to bring vertical landing abilities to highways

thedrive.com

211–220 of 332 posts

Re: British F-35Bs to bring vertical landing abilities to highways

#211
post #125

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is true in the US and Canada as well.

> This is true in the US As far as I could tell after a bar argument, this is more or less an urban legend[0]. While the referenced article only debunks the "Every 5 miles" myth, further (brief) reading led me to believe if there were ever any designed airstrips into the interstate system they were short-lived and likely very one-offish style programs. [0] - https://highways.dot.gov/public-roads/mayjune-2000/one-mile…

> urban legend

That's disappointing. It sounded so cool! The part of this story I recall is that overpasses were spaced widely enough to avoid interfering with airplanes should they need to find a landing spot.

Re: British F-35Bs to bring vertical landing abilities to highways

#212

"FTA: they would involve placing aluminum AM-2 mats along a strip of highway, up to 1,500 feet long. This will be sufficient for the stealth jets to carry out short takeoffs and vertical landings while protecting the road beneath them." "AM-2 matting consists of 1 1/2" x 2' steel rectangles coated with a epoxy nonskid material, available in both 6 and 12 foot lengths, and are assembled in a brickwork pattern to form…

> AM-2 Aluminum Matting, Portable Aircraft Arresting Gear and Marking (lighting) Systems. AM-2 matting is the base upon which the entire EAF system rests.

> AM-2 matting consists of 1 1/2" x 2' steel rectangles ...

So, are they aluminum or are they steel? Or some structure involving both?

Re: British F-35Bs to bring vertical landing abilities to highways

#213
post #198

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Russia has always been an imperialistic, genocidal and brutal country, incapable of creating anything of lasting value. Wow dude, that is quite deranged. >Unless Estonia was in NATO, Russian armors might very well be now in Tallinn. Russia borders 14 countries, and I don't think it fought with any except over the issue of NATO membership.

In 2008 Russia attacked Georgia

relations between Russia and Georgia began to deteriorate, reaching a full diplomatic crisis by April 2008, when NATO promised to consider Georgia's bid for membership.

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Russo-Georgian_War

Re: British F-35Bs to bring vertical landing abilities to highways

#214
post #202
post #77

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This is in the context of fighting Russia, and current events demonstrate that the legitimacy of a target is moot. But of course highways, infrastructure, is a relevant thing to destroy in war.

Do you have any evidence to back this up? Look at Civilian vs Soldier dead for various major wars. Only ONE war has WAY more soldiers killed than civilians. If Russia is trying to target Ukrainians, they are doing a worse job than any war you can name. Civilians Soldiers WW1 10M 7M WW2 50-55M 21-25M Korea 2.7M 0.8M Vietnam 2.5M 1.1M Kosovo 1-5K 0.5-1K Afghanistan 500K[1] 100K Iraq 135K[2] 40K Ukraine[3] 9K 65-250K [1…

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Re: British F-35Bs to bring vertical landing abilities to highways

#215
post #198
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modded down for a good reason. 1. The client states weren't client states. They were de-facto annexed polities with centuries of distinct characteristics. After Soviet Union fell these countries could resume their legitimate existence. 2. Russia has always been an imperialistic, genocidal and brutal country, incapable of creating anything of lasting value. A country on the Russia's border has no reason to be categori…

>Russia has always been an imperialistic, genocidal and brutal country, incapable of creating anything of lasting value. Wow dude, that is quite deranged. >Unless Estonia was in NATO, Russian armors might very well be now in Tallinn. Russia borders 14 countries, and I don't think it fought with any except over the issue of NATO membership.

Neither was this war about NATO.

NATO was an excuse.

The war in ukraine is colonial and genocidal war with the intent of eradicating Ukrainian language and statehood and subvert the fee will of Ukrainian people under Russian yoke.

Re: British F-35Bs to bring vertical landing abilities to highways

#216

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't see how you're reaching that conclusion from Ukraine. What Ukraine has shown is that war is mostly unchanged, you're still mostly just digging trenches and firing artillery at each other. Sure there are lots of drones, but that's mainly to make up for both side's lack of guided weapons and sufficient air power to establish air supremacy. Neither of which is an issue for NATO. The situation in Ukraine has only…

The Russians aren't risking their planes. They use cruise missiles and drones for behind the lines targets. I don't think the Russians lack guided weapons, they are launching dozens of cruise missiles each week. I think it's quite likely they're rationing their sophisticated weapons in case the conflict escalates. From what I've seen, the drones have been very effective. A $10k drone taking out a $2M tank seems like…

> A $10k drone taking out a $2M tank seems like a good trade, even if it takes 10 drones to do it.

I certainly agree with that, but I'd like to caution you that sticker-price comparison is very limited, it papers over a ton of very important details and can lead you completely astray.

For instance, suppose you use $10k of ammunition to shoot down a $100 mortar shell; the sticker-price analysis says that's a bad trade, but what about the context? What if the mortar shell would have otherwise landed on equipment or personnel valued in millions of dollars? With that context, it's clear that it was actually a very good trade. That's just scratching the surface though, what if one side has is backed by strong economies and can afford $10k more than the other side can afford $100? What if one side has huge stockpiles and the other doesn't? What if the war is going to be over in hours and so attrition warfare simply isn't relevant? The whole context of the exchange must be considered.

Re: British F-35Bs to bring vertical landing abilities to highways

#217
post #198
post #162

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Modded down for a good reason. 1. The client states weren't client states. They were de-facto annexed polities with centuries of distinct characteristics. After Soviet Union fell these countries could resume their legitimate existence. 2. Russia has always been an imperialistic, genocidal and brutal country, incapable of creating anything of lasting value. A country on the Russia's border has no reason to be categori…

>Russia has always been an imperialistic, genocidal and brutal country, incapable of creating anything of lasting value. Wow dude, that is quite deranged. >Unless Estonia was in NATO, Russian armors might very well be now in Tallinn. Russia borders 14 countries, and I don't think it fought with any except over the issue of NATO membership.

Russia has only fought with the countries who sought to join a military alliance to protect themselves ... from Russia?

Incredible.

Re: British F-35Bs to bring vertical landing abilities to highways

#218
post #53

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It's vertical landing, not vertical take off. It's still a short rolling take off. I actually wouldn't be suprised to find they do a short rolling landing too (rather than go full hover, use the lift fan to allow them to land at lower than normal stall speed would be). They've tested the rolling landing on board the HMS QE And yes, for full maintenance, you do need need a proper airport and hangars. But for a quick r…

The Czechs are buying the conventional variant of the F-35, not the vertical landing variant.

I'm aware, but the OP link was about British F-35Bs.

Re: British F-35Bs to bring vertical landing abilities to highways

#219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No. Service to society is not always a money maker. Value does not imply profit. Now, not every unprofitable service is worthy of government funding.

What is an example of a service which provides a lot of value but is not/ could not be profitable? There are public services we choose to run at a loss, like the postal service or public transit. These services definitely could raise their prices in order to turn a profit (they provide enough value that people would still pay the higher prices). We choose to run them at a loss as a sort of wealth redistribution progr…

If I'm ever convicted of a crime, I sure hope the courtroom where my trial takes place isn't considered to be "profitable".

Re: British F-35Bs to bring vertical landing abilities to highways

#220
post #34
post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

How would you know who is qualified for what?

I don't have perfect knowledge of this but disagreeing with military leaders based on a couple videos is definitely non-credible. Linking Russian drone propaganda is useful to let people know that drones exist perhaps, but not for much beyond that. Beyond that central theme, certain things don't pass the smell test in my opinion. For example: - Lancets are winning the war. Who is winning the war is debatable but usua…

Lancet is so powerful in this war that I'd be shocked if we aren't currently working on our own version as fast as we can.

CAS is critical to advances. It is somewhat stopped by MANPADS, but stopped very hard by SAMs. When flying close to the trees, physics make it so that a SAM radar can't detect a plane until they are within 5-8 miles. This means intercepting a plane or helicopter attacking the front lines (launching missiles from a distance) puts the radar very close to the front.

Lancet has a range of about 30 miles, so if you place your SAMs close enough to intercept the planes, they are now in striking distance of the Lancet. Because the Lancet flies in so low and has such a tiny radar cross-section, intercepting it is incredibly hard. Even if it is intercepted, using a $4,000,000 missile to destroy a $35,000 drone is a terrible deal. This deal is even worse when you consider Ukraine can't get any more S-300 rockets and Patriot missiles are of very limited production per year (500 or so IIRC).

Going further, our newest 155mm artillery is the M777 and we've given a bunch to Ukraine. Setting aside the maintenance issue (we admitted 30% are in the shop at any given time which isn't surprising given the reliability issues our marines have had with them), their maximum range is under 20 miles which puts them in the range of a Lancet too.

Russia has had to rely on Kornet ATGMs for most of the war. These are direct fire, so hitting the weak top of a tank is almost impossible. There are videos of a Leopard seeming to take a couple Kornet hits and still being serviceable. In contrast, the Lancet offers Russia the ability to do downward attacks at the thin top armor. We have videos of them doing exactly this to take out a Leopard or two. This issue exists not just for tanks, but for artillery and other vehicles based on the Leopard chassis.

Circling back around, this leads to the artillery attrition. Russia has been consistently shooting 5-10x as many shells as Ukraine. Ukraine is basically out of Soviet 152mm shells and doesn't have a great way to replace parts on their Soviet artillery anyway. NATO has basically given all the spare 155mm shells we have. We're ramping up production, but we won't be matching Russia's advantage for a couple more years at the earliest. This is one of the reasons Biden wants to send cluster munitions -- we're out of everything else.

The Russian drone swarms stuff is just propaganda. There's been no evidence of anything like that. The closest to this is definitely Ukraine with all the small suicide drones they've been pushing out which don't work well against armored targets, but work very well against personnel (and you can't hold ground without people).

Western weapons is more about perception than anything. We in America have a superiority complex when it comes to our equipment. When you aren't facing people with AKs and outdated RPGs, our equipment is a lot more vulnerable than people want to believe. Tanks, IFVs, MRAPs, artillery, etc have all been only a little better than Russia's stuff because ATGMs, drones, and mines are proving to be so powerful. On the flip side, Patriot, MANPADS, and Javelin ATGMs have been and continue to be absolutely stellar.

Based on the crushed Ukrainian offensive (still haven't reached the first true defensive line), I can say without reservation that what Ukraine needs is: attack helicopters to work on defense, more ATGMs, 10x as many man-portable EW systems, and an attack drone that actually works.

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