Europeans Are Becoming Poorer • Hacker News Board

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#91

Post by ClumsyPilot » Mon, Jul 17, 2023, 10:03 AM UTC

gumballindie wrote: post #16

Hm dubious article. Fails to mention that while west europeans are indeed getting poorer east europeans are getting richer. Confused folks might say that east europe is becoming richer thanks to eu funding and i will remind them that that comes at the heavy price of having sold entire industries to said benefactors - whom often underpay despite colossal profits, essentially making development more … challenging. None…

> having sold entire industries to said benefactors - whom often underpay despite colossal profits

And pay no taxes.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#92

Post by MattPalmer1086 » Mon, Jul 17, 2023, 10:04 AM UTC

WA wrote: post #55

Don't believe any article that uses AVERAGES instead of the MEAN when it comes to wages, because average wages are worthless to consider and are more easily skewed by extreme outliers. Since Jeff Bezos moved to our village, we're all multi-millionaires on average.

Did you mean to say "instead of the MEDIAN?"

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#93

Post by another2another » Mon, Jul 17, 2023, 10:18 AM UTC

boffinAudio wrote: post #26

undefinedland wrote: post #6

[flagged]

[flagged]

>Imagine Europe and Russia aligned, such that Schengen stretched from The Hague to Anadyr. >Russia and Europe getting along would be great for the world.

Russia has _no_ interest in getting along with anybody else in the world and seek to dominate. When their insidious plans started to fail in Ukraine they resorted to force.

Why on earth would European counties _ever_ align with such a despotic collection of peoples? They're completely unable to form even a semi-functioning democracy for any period of time and soon descend into despotism the moment you take your eye off them for 2 minutes. Hard lessons are being re-learned in European capitals after our failure to deter the laughably ambitious megalomania of current Russian leaders.

Now Ukraine and Europe aligned, I get that. I believe they have the possibility to be an excellent political and economic partner in the EU.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#94

Post by _g7d8 » Mon, Jul 17, 2023, 10:22 AM UTC

rcarr wrote: post #45

_g7d8 wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You don’t need to become fluent in a European language before moving there. Most expats don’t. Having some familiarity will help, it’ll become much easier to learn the language when you’re actually in the environment, and no one will expect you to suddenly speak their language when you get there.

I would say this depends on the country. You can obviously survive without learning the language but you are definitely better off learning it, particularly if you want to integrate with locals. It’s also country dependent. Somewhere like the Netherlands or one of the Nordics where everyone speaks fluent English you’ll probably be ok not learning but if you tried just speaking English in France they’ll consider you a…

I didn’t say that you shouldn’t try to become fluent at all eventually, it’s just not a prerequisite before moving.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#95

Post by FirmwareBurner » Mon, Jul 17, 2023, 10:24 AM UTC

seszett wrote: post #80

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #60

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>But I do have A/C and a clothes dryer. Again, things like that are easily affordable if you work in the tech or professional fields in Europe In which country do you live? In Austria you're not allowed to install an split unit AC due to building regulations. You could if you own your own single family house but you need to be very wealthy for that, beyond the average tech worker. Tech worker is blue-colar work here.

House ownership is very different among the European countries. I think it's somewhat rare in Germany and Austria, but you don't need to be very wealthy to own a house in France or Belgium for example. And you are allowed to install A/C, in fact heat pumps are very much recommended for new builds, almost mandatory even given the tight energy requirements today and it's becoming common enough to use a reversible one.

Why is housing so much cheaper in France and Belgium?

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#96

Post by TMWNN » Mon, Jul 17, 2023, 10:26 AM UTC

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #89

klabb3 wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Hard disagree. The ones who ramble about Sweden, Switzerland, Finland when they’ve reached some goal like “happiest people in the world” or “safest cities”, usually with some picture of a cabin in the alps, are Americans who romanticize Europe.

> are Americans who romanticize Europe. Indeed. They don't know that many people here still have 1h+ commutes to their soul crushing 9-5 jobs just like they do, and assume everyone has a 15 minute bike ride to work through a cobble stone street or working remotely with their MacBooks in hip central cafes.

I laugh while rolling my eyes whenever I read on Reddit that "Europe" has "good transit" so doesn't need cars. Such geniuses will, of course, never ever actually have to tell a rural Irishman or Spaniard or Frenchman that there is no need for the truck he owns for the farm and the sedan his family uses every day. Or the German or Italian who ackshually has no need for the automobile he uses to commute into Frankfurt or Milan every day.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#97

Post by ClumsyPilot » Mon, Jul 17, 2023, 10:31 AM UTC

throwaway93 wrote: post #72

boffinAudio wrote: post #26

Earlier quoted context omitted.

[flagged]

European countries would be vazal states like Belarus in that situation

This is outright silly - russia is structurally incapable of sustaining many sectors of economy. Russian businessmen are routinely forced to flee the country or tortured in prison.

The first thing anyone in Russia does, if they’ve made money, is they buy real estate in Europe.

The vassal-ish relationship would not be functional, it would not work for Russians themselves. Nor is there are reason to believe Russia would dominate that relationship.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#98

Post by astrange » Mon, Jul 17, 2023, 10:42 AM UTC

code-blooded wrote: post #53

astrange wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Is it vented to the outside, or is it the kind that doesn't work? (Japan also only has the kind that doesn't do anything. No personal experience elsewhere.)

My current building is different than majority of buildings with A/C here (and note - A/C is non-standard in central Europe). In my case the entire building I live in has "central A/C". I'm not an expert, but I believe it works by circulating cold water in the pipes and then each apartment has fans in the ceiling that blow cool air. You regulate it by setting the desired temperature in each room using a thermostat. I…

I mean the dryer, not the AC.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#99

Post by ramblerman » Mon, Jul 17, 2023, 11:06 AM UTC

FirmwareBurner wrote: post #62

ramblerman wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Swiss cities are consistently among the most expensive in the world. Food is bad. Very xenophobic society. It has a lot of great things too ofc. But I wouldn’t consider it representative of the nicer parts of Europe (vs pure financial optimization) mentioned above such as working less, walking, biking in the city.

>Food is bad. Very xenophobic society. Where did you get your info? Swiss food quality is some of the best in the world, well regulated and mostly organic, that's why it's so expensive. How did you measure xenofobia?

By food I meant preparation, i.e. cuisine. You are right that food quality in supermarket although expensive is not bad (I wouldn't say it's as amazing as you claim either though, any french/spanish market would knock switzerland out of the park for fresh produce/meats).

xenofobia is subjective, and maybe wrong word, but expat society is largely cut off from locals. I know many germans firsthand that feel they can't integrate.

Re: Europeans Are Becoming Poorer

#100

Post by hef19898 » Mon, Jul 17, 2023, 11:20 AM UTC

Garvi wrote: post #87

hef19898 wrote: post #44

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Industry sectors are not being wiped out that fast so.

What is that statement based on? In my country heavy industry has halved in the past 12 months. I know multiple engineers who are now getting into software development because of it.

On an European level, that doesn't seem to be the case so:

https://ec.europa.eu/eurostat/statistics-explained/index.php...

Except the global dip during Covid, development is either stable or slightly increasing. A 50% drop in production sounds like a strong claim, requiring equally strong sources to back up.