should really use apl instead of forth.
Much larger hardware requirements.
And brain requirements. Forth is frustrating to me, but APL is just all too much.
Dusk OS: 32-bit Forth OS. Useful during first stage of civilizational collapse
111–120 of 152 posts
Re: Dusk OS: 32-bit Forth OS. Useful during first stage of civilizational collapse
#112Oh I’m so glad someone has already started working on something like this. This has been one of my biggest concerns for a while Edit: Are there any easy entry points to this ecosystem for people interested in the concept but not familiar with the details? Like a competition to see who can get this up and running some set program the fastest on microprocessors found in the trash/recycling? Or what’s the most unexpecte…
Yeah I was actually thinking about it too.
Re: Dusk OS: 32-bit Forth OS. Useful during first stage of civilizational collapse
#113Earlier quoted context omitted.
Seeing civilizational collapse or decline as far fetched is a direct result of your privileged position in the world.
It’s more a result of being old enough to have seen countless histrionic doomsday predictions not come true.
It’s not too far-fetched, it’s happened before: https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Late_Bronze_Age_collapse
Re: Dusk OS: 32-bit Forth OS. Useful during first stage of civilizational collapse
#114Earlier quoted context omitted.
By this project? No one, probably. By this "society is doomed, the world is gonna collapse" type of thought? Many people. Loads of people for a myriad of reasons get conned into this dillusion and either (a) stripped out of their hard earned cash or (b) spiral further and further into a dillisuonal state where they either hurt themselves or people around them. Also it's effin goofy. Nerd CEOs building their undergrou…
And at a slightly higher level: the likes of Thiel and company buying up remote property. I wonder if they have figured out how they're going to get there when they have to. In their worldview NZ is probably next door but when the lights go out getting there is going to be a serious challenge, probably much more risky than simply staying put wherever you find yourself.
I'd understand if we were dedicating substantial resources to prepping... but we're not.
The number of people and amount of treasure spent on it is a rounding error.
Let other people have their hobbies.
Re: Dusk OS: 32-bit Forth OS. Useful during first stage of civilizational collapse
#115Earlier quoted context omitted.
And at a slightly higher level: the likes of Thiel and company buying up remote property. I wonder if they have figured out how they're going to get there when they have to. In their worldview NZ is probably next door but when the lights go out getting there is going to be a serious challenge, probably much more risky than simply staying put wherever you find yourself.
I'd understand if we were dedicating substantial resources to prepping... but we're not. The number of people and amount of treasure spent on it is a rounding error. Let other people have their hobbies.
It's pretty dangerous when those that are in a position to make a difference are also able to position themselves in such a way that they won't go down with the ship if they don't.
Re: Dusk OS: 32-bit Forth OS. Useful during first stage of civilizational collapse
#116Earlier quoted context omitted.
> (I think the author’s predictions about the collapse of civilization are overblown, but still, if you’re going to engage in a middlebrow dismissal, at least do us the courtesy of reading and understanding what you’re dismissing.) You should probably do me the courtesy to not make assumptions about what I've read and understood. This is such a common trope on HN that it made it into the guidelines. The whole idea th…
https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=35046551 "easy to imagine - a large enough collapse that making new ones is very very hard, especially compared to scrounging and repurposing the huge amount of existing ones. Imagine a huge population decline, and search parties looking through the ruins for useful tech, like computers, decades later. Such a society could probably make new computers, but the cost of making new, m…
Yes, it would make for a nice movie. But real life isn't a movie and of course I'm fine with individuals making their own decisions I still think we should look at the general picture through the lens of finding out what the likelihood of certain scenarios is first. Prepping for an intermediate stage is ultimately not a very good disaster mitigation strategy, you plan for the worst and hope for the best. This intermediary stage of a slow slide isn't going to be stopped because of some FORTH code if and when it happens. But I wish those who believe it will all the best.
edit: I think this sort of thinking is more of an excuse to scratch an itch than a realistic scenario. We are not so addicted to computers - yet - that we could not revert back to some stable society without them, but some of us are so addicted to them that we can't imagine a society without them. The first couple of hours of any major crisis will likely correct that in ways that are going to be very unpleasant. Effectively aiming for something 'in the middle' is aiming for a crisis that isn't a crisis. Anything that actually is a crisis would be better served by acid free prints of Wikipedia and the designs of common farm implements that can be made with just bench tools. You'd be on your feet again in a short few hundred years. But if you remain addicted to playing around in FORTH while the world goes to pieces around you chances are you'll be kicked out of any community you're a part of because you're slacking off your farming duties. Any world where you think you might need this will be so drastically altered from the one you live in today that you won't need it, you'll be way too busy to try to stay alive.
Re: Dusk OS: 32-bit Forth OS. Useful during first stage of civilizational collapse
#117After civilizational collapse you won't need computers, you'll need bows, arrows and basic agricultural tools that don't require motors. Forget about electricity or anything requiring it, that will be the least of your problems. Assuming there is still sunlight enough to keep photosynthesis running. If not, you may want to find some place high. And if you are going to do something like this then you really should mak…
My solar powered encrypted radios let me take your basic agricultural tools without worrying too much about your bows and arrows. :D > hope your USB sticks will be EMP proof. You don't keep your spare computers in a steel and copper clad safe?
Right next to my supply of tinfoil...
Re: Dusk OS: 32-bit Forth OS. Useful during first stage of civilizational collapse
#118These kind of self-contained start-from-scratch projects are comforting, and can be intellectually interesting, but it would make much more practical sense to me to spec out some simple hardware than can run linux, or a porting toolkit to make it easier to run on phones etc.
Re: Dusk OS: 32-bit Forth OS. Useful during first stage of civilizational collapse
#119Earlier quoted context omitted.
I mean we already see the issues with international supply chains failing during covid, and we haven’t even really seen the significant impacts from climate change. Yeah, most people on HN aren’t going to really need this in the next 5-10 years as we’re predominantly in locations that will be maintained the longest. What about people in countries that already barely have functioning supply chains? This could be immed…
I think the overlap between 'people in civilizational collapse zones without reliable internet access' and 'people with Forth and general computing skills sufficient to expertly operate random hardware' is very narrow indeed. It's a cool project, but the complexity of most hardware is such that solo reverse engineering it for practical purposes is likely a fictional scenario. The chances of an engineering community t…
> If you have technology skills and reasonably expect to experience some sort of apocalyptic scenario, ISTM you'd be better off with a solar charger, a few rugged smartphones, and several SD cards containing backups of Wikipedia and as much reference material as you can collect.
That will buy you a decade. I'd go for a paper version of the stuff that you think is important enough to haul around in physical form for many decades and immediately start spreading these around in numbers large enough to ensure that some copies would survive. And even that assumes literacy, some level of schooling to survive, and enough specialization to be able to set aside time for people to study all of this. The best mechanism for something like that would probably be a priesthood of sorts... they tend to be long lived and good at preserving knowledge (and eventually to use it as a power base for domination of the unwashed masses which they work hard to keep dumb but that's already many steps down the line).
Re: Dusk OS: 32-bit Forth OS. Useful during first stage of civilizational collapse
#120After civilizational collapse you won't need computers, you'll need bows, arrows and basic agricultural tools that don't require motors. Forget about electricity or anything requiring it, that will be the least of your problems. Assuming there is still sunlight enough to keep photosynthesis running. If not, you may want to find some place high. And if you are going to do something like this then you really should mak…
Dr. Strangelove had a different opinion on what was needed after civilization collapse…