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What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

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Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#171

Post by techwizrd »

chrisweekly wrote: post #121
paulddraper wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm a private pilot. This is basically correct. If your airport is small and you never get in trouble with ATC or have an emergency situation, you will probably not get caught. However, if you do get caught, it is a criminal charge with (IIRC) up to $250,000 fine and 6 years prison time. Or worse, you overestimate your ability and die/kill people. I wouldn't take that risk. If you want to fly a lot, get a license. If…

> "E.g. If you have been professionally diagnosed with ADHD, the FAA bans you from any pilot's license ever, even a student license. :/" What?! That's incredible. If more people were trying to get their licenses I bet the ACLU would fix that nonsensical bigotry and embarrass the FAA in court.

Incredible is right because it's not true [0]. That said, the current system isn't perfect and doesn't incentivise pilots to disclose or appropriately manage their conditions.

0: https://www.faa.gov/ame_guide/dec_cons/disease_prot/adhd

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#172

Post by ai_monkey »

paulddraper wrote: post #164
ai_monkey wrote: post #159

Earlier quoted context omitted.

When and where did you get your information? Because this is completely wrong. LSA's and gliders rely on self-certification for the very medical reasons you mentioned. In smaller aircraft where you don't carry passengers and don't fly in demanding circumstances (high speeds, altitudes, IFR, etc), the margin of safety for the general public is much wider. The FAA puts more trust in your own assessment of your medical…

> this is completely wrong It's a little bit wrong. A drivers license-only sport license requires that you not have failed an aviation medical exam. [1] ADHD will cause you to fail a medical exam, and thereby prevent you from a sport license. But, yes, if you play your cards carefully (i.e. stay away from the doctor!), you can fly LSA/gliders. > In smaller aircraft where you don't carry passengers and don't fly in de…

I think the difference here is that you can get those ratings with a PPL with no extra medical requirements. IIRC some countries actually require you to get a higher class medical if you want to get an IFR endorsement for your PPL. I think what we're seeing with BasicMed is a step in the right direction to further relax the medical rules for the vast majority of PPL operations (i.e. not flying a cirrus jet at FL300, or a caravan with 10 friends). My main point though was that it is absolutely not the case that FAA bans you from flying if you have a condition they don't like or take meds they don't like. If you don't need a medical certificate (glider with or without a DL, LSA with a DL and no denial on the most recent medical application, among others) and can in good faith attest that your specific medical circumstances (the impact of which you are presumably deeply familiar with) are not a hazard, then you are allowed to hold a license and exercise its privileges. Disclaimer: This interpretation is based on reliable sources but I'm not a lawyer. Don't take my word for it, read the FARs and relevant legal publications or ask a lawyer if you think any of this applies to you.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#174

Post by andersrs »

My hot take is that hobby pilots are a bunch of selfish assholes creating a bunch of noise and emissions just do they can have fun. So selfish they only started thinking about removing lead from fuel very recently. One of the aircraft is even called a mosquito so the industry is so aware of the issue they're making a joke out of it. At least commercial aircraft have a purpose and try to be as quiet as possible. Fuck pilots.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#175

Post by gU9x3u8XmQNG »

Hmmm…

Australia is heavily regulated, which is good and bad.

Unfortunately, due to regulation and other costs; recreational flying - in my experience - is suffering greatly in Australia.

I watch a few US youtube channels, including the STOL groups, often in awe.

My recreational flying days are likely over, primarily due to cost. Cannot even find hangar space, in west Victoria, within my budget :(

Drones (also heavily regulated) and Flight Simulator are all that remain.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#176

Post by entropy47 »

andersrs wrote: post #174

My hot take is that hobby pilots are a bunch of selfish assholes creating a bunch of noise and emissions just do they can have fun. So selfish they only started thinking about removing lead from fuel very recently. One of the aircraft is even called a mosquito so the industry is so aware of the issue they're making a joke out of it. At least commercial aircraft have a purpose and try to be as quiet as possible. Fuck…

> creating a bunch of noise and emissions just so they can have fun

Wait until you hear about parents!

I haven't actually done the maths but I expect an ultralight is comparable to a car hobbyist in both noise and emissions. Agree that flying a jet liner for fun would be a dick move.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#177

Post by trevyn »

Dalewyn wrote: post #156
pkilgore wrote: post #150

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This comment contributes nothing. There are multiple levels of licensing with multiple levels of medical clearances. Someone on controlled ADHD medication, diabetes, or high BMI is perfectly capable of managing risk of flying as a private pilot same as boating or driving. They probably shouldn't be airline transport pilots, but that's not really under discussion. It seems like your goal here is to start some sort of…

FAA's regulations are draconian, but they are that way because they are written in blood. When shit goes south, it doesn't matter whether you're a private or commercial pilot. Your plane is coming down regardless, and worst case you might take some other people with you to the other side. More than anything, flying is a luxury compared to something like driving which is a practical necessity or sailing which carries…

Excellent second-grade analysis of the situation.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#178

Post by sealeck »

technick wrote: post #160

I once had dreams of becoming a pilot but the FAA considers adderall a no fly drug, even though it makes me better at everything I do. Because I wasn't diagnosed with it by a shrink or psychologist, the FAA doc in Oklahoma told me I could stop taking it for six months and then get my medical but there wasn't any way I could do that. Another guy I know who was in the same boat as me, went and got his pilots license in…

I really wouldn't want someone with ADHD flying a plane – it's just not safe.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#179

Post by jillesvangurp »

golwengaud wrote: post #12

Setting the legalities aside, flying any of these without the training behind a pilot's license sounds like a great way to have some fun, right up until you have a really bad day. Maybe you can skip the license---I haven't looked at those regs myself---but you can't skip the skills. (I'd also want to take a hard look at the design, parts, and maintenance before I flew something like this---but I don't really have the…

Flying the plane is the easy part. What makes getting a pilots license hard and expensive is all the complex rules and regulations you have to know about and the complex engine operation that you have to be proficient in to fly safely. And what makes keeping a license expensive is the requirement to stay current, which means flying a certain amount of hours. Which is not cheap.

In my opinion, general aviation is due for a little disruption. Basically current cost, rules, training and practices are appropriate for planes that are half a century old, have a combustion engine, and require a lot of micro managing to fly safely, and regular and expensive inspections to keep airworthy.

The electrical drones and more or less autonomous planes currently being designed by dozens of companies are very different in nature. Cheaper to manufacture (less moving parts). Cheaper to operate (less maintenance, electricity is cheap). Fly by wire; you just point them in the right direction and they go there. They are orders of magnitude easier to deal with for pilots. Less buttons, dials, switches, etc. Some of these things can operate without a pilot even.

There are going to be a lot of experimental planes with electrical engines and a small enough battery that you might even operate them without a license. It will take a while for these to get very cheap as the high end batteries with > 500 wh/kg still are a combination of very hard to get and expensive. But they are getting to market. At least two companies have announced they are shipping such batteries this year. One of them is CATL. Better batteries might follow in a few years. But 500wh/kg is good enough to improve ranges quite a bit of currently already flying planes. And it also enables smaller form factors. Electrically propelled para gliders already exist, for example.

It will take a while but the rules are likely going to have to be adjusted for these new types of planes. And since they are much cheaper to operate, there will also be a lot of pressure for the current ATC system to be modernized to keep up with the growing number of planes.

Re: What planes can you fly without a pilot’s license?

#180

Post by foldr »

godelski wrote: post #158
Kerb_ wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Diabetic shock while flying would be pretty bad. They seem to do individualized assessments, it's not an instant removal. https://diabetes.org/tools-support/know-your-rights/discrimi...

This is the reason. Nuance is also common for some things on the list (e.g. HIV/ADHD but not all things, e.g. AIDS/Color blindness). But all these things are still lacking of a lot of nuance and things like diabetes has only recently been partially resolved due to large lobbying efforts of the ADA: https://diabetes.org/tools-support/know-your-rights/discrimi...

Difficult to see what the “nuance” would be for HIV. If someone knows they have HIV, is receiving treatment, and passes other general health checks, then there’s really no risk. It smells of 80s prejudice.
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