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Teddit Is Shutting Down

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Re: Teddit Is Shutting Down

#121

Post by alienzx »

mvdtnz wrote: post #104
morserer wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not an expert, but I wonder if all the redditors who would be mad about it have already jumped ship and gone to federated alternatives, and all the redditors who are left are the ones who don't care and are watching the chaos with popcorn. If you're asking about the moderators, they were forced to either reopen or be un-modded. They did what they could.

No one (within the margin of error) has gone to "federated alternatives". No one cares about "federated" or "decentralised" or any of this nonesense.

I was skeptical too.

Lemmy has grown exponentially in the last few months and I've found it to be an adequate replacement after learning the basics.

I was skeptical about reddit in 2008 and hesitated to leave digg.

Re: Teddit Is Shutting Down

#122

Post by mariusor »

p-e-w wrote: post #108
deeviant wrote: post #101

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> I'm honestly astonished to see how many smart folks are falling for their lies What exactly are the lies? No one group is in control, each fiefdom is free to do what they wish, including not consorting with those they feel are of ill repute or temperament. As far as being "politically charged", that's just the way the world (well, ok the US at least) is now. Blame the culture warriors who can only think in terms of…

> No one group is in control, each fiefdom is free to do what they wish That's not true in practice. The purpose of a social network is to communicate with others. Network effects ensure that the biggest instances grow ever bigger, and thus not federating with them effectively means not participating in the network. If those instances then impose their rules on other instances under threat of defederation, and furthe…

> Imagine if email, a truly federated system, worked that way.

Maybe news to you, but that's exactly how e-mail works. DKIM, DMARC and all the other anti-SPAM measures amount to exactly that. If your server is not proven to abide by the "code of conduct" of not spamming people, your emails get nowhere.

And speaking of fediverse and "network effects", you might not realize but besides the westernized section of the fediverse, Asia has a large community which is mostly defederated on mainstream instances because of what people consider questionable content. They are probably larger in actual numbers.

So federation does work as intended. What you really want, I suspect, is to shove your questionable political opinions down the throats of folk that don't really want to be subjected to them. And somehow being told no, is everybody else's problem and not your own.

Re: Teddit Is Shutting Down

#123

Post by antigonemerlin »

adammichaelc wrote: post #113

Why don't we just bring back the OG internet? Google scraped every site on earth back in the day and nobody blinked. Who's building a new, unstoppable, Google, that will just gather all this content up, and make knowledge freely available to humanity?

In one sense, parts of the old internet hasn't died; dwarf fortress forums seem to be still going strong, as are other forums, if you know where to look, while new forums are springing up using different models.

On the other hand, sites like reddit made it so easy to start a community that interesting people who would've built a forum instead hitched their wagon to reddit, like AskHistorians.

Re: Teddit Is Shutting Down

#124

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

alienzx wrote: post #121
mvdtnz wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

No one (within the margin of error) has gone to "federated alternatives". No one cares about "federated" or "decentralised" or any of this nonesense.

I was skeptical too. Lemmy has grown exponentially in the last few months and I've found it to be an adequate replacement after learning the basics. I was skeptical about reddit in 2008 and hesitated to leave digg.

The only real pain with Lemmy right now is that it doesn't have all the niche sub Reddits due to lower population. Hopefully that'll change, because that's Reddit's real draw for me, not just shitposting and memes, which Lemmy is now doing a decent job with.

Re: Teddit Is Shutting Down

#125

Post by SketchySeaBeast »

Terr_ wrote: post #54
safety1st wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do we need a "winning" instance for? In a federated world what does that even mean? What is this (online? HN?) cultural obsession with winner-take-all? The whole point of federation is that you don't need winner-take-all which is in fact unhealthy. If you have a community on Reddit which you want to migrate you just need to find a stable instance with admin policies you consider reasonable. If it's a big communi…

To me, the crux of it is that identities are not portable. AFAIK, I can't take my identity and posts and move them a different instance if the one I chose happens to become evil or bankrupt. Sure, I could start my own instance, but that's a high bar.

Identities are also much lower stake. You don't have a giant pile of karma to drag around. You'll lose out on your subs and I guess your personal connection to your comments but that's it.

Re: Teddit Is Shutting Down

#126

Post by p-e-w »

mariusor wrote: post #122
p-e-w wrote: post #108

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> No one group is in control, each fiefdom is free to do what they wish That's not true in practice. The purpose of a social network is to communicate with others. Network effects ensure that the biggest instances grow ever bigger, and thus not federating with them effectively means not participating in the network. If those instances then impose their rules on other instances under threat of defederation, and furthe…

> Imagine if email, a truly federated system, worked that way. Maybe news to you, but that's exactly how e-mail works. DKIM, DMARC and all the other anti-SPAM measures amount to exactly that. If your server is not proven to abide by the "code of conduct" of not spamming people, your emails get nowhere. And speaking of fediverse and "network effects", you might not realize but besides the westernized section of the fe…

> DKIM, DMARC and all the other anti-SPAM measures amount to exactly that.

Nonsense. Anti-spam systems block spam, not content an unaccountable cabal deems politically undesirable. That comparison is laughable.

> So federation does work as intended.

If the intention is to split the world into silos, each of them populated by a different group of moral absolutists, all of which consider all other groups so abhorrent that severing all communication with them is the only acceptable course of action, then yes.

Perhaps that is indeed the intention. Perhaps the prevailing attitude of our time is that this is the only way. However, I'm old enough to remember an Internet that didn't work like that.

Re: Teddit Is Shutting Down

#129

Post by neurostimulant »

grishka wrote: post #30

Seeing all Reddit apps shut down, I can't help but wonder — what is it that made everyone play by the rules? What happened to the adversarial interoperability spirit? What forces people to use their own API keys instead of pretending to be one of the official apps? I can understand the iOS apps, the App Store hegemony does kinda force this and there were cases of Apple removing apps that interact with an online servi…

Why waste energy building tools to support a company that actively hostile to their own users. Might as well spend the energy building for something else, e.g. to support fediverse, which in the last few weeks got a surge of new apps and tools made by developers abandoning reddit.

Re: Teddit Is Shutting Down

#130

Post by grishka »

neurostimulant wrote: post #129
grishka wrote: post #30

Seeing all Reddit apps shut down, I can't help but wonder — what is it that made everyone play by the rules? What happened to the adversarial interoperability spirit? What forces people to use their own API keys instead of pretending to be one of the official apps? I can understand the iOS apps, the App Store hegemony does kinda force this and there were cases of Apple removing apps that interact with an online servi…

Why waste energy building tools to support a company that actively hostile to their own users. Might as well spend the energy building for something else, e.g. to support fediverse, which in the last few weeks got a surge of new apps and tools made by developers abandoning reddit.

Well, I myself am building fediverse things since 2019, so... :)

The thing with centralized social services though is that network effects exist. You can't just switch from Reddit to Lemmy or Kbin the same way you can switch between Windows and Linux.

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