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A third of North America’s birds have vanished

nautil.us

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Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#171

Post by tonyhb »

slily wrote: post #139
dataviz1000 wrote: post #126

"Our findings suggest that free-ranging cats cause substantially greater wildlife mortality than previously thought and are likely the single greatest source of anthropogenic mortality for US birds and mammals."[0] [0] https://www.nature.com/articles/ncomms2380 Studies show that outdoor cats kill billions of birds annually. Anecdotally, posting anti cat studies on social media leads to real world threats and cat lovi…

It also suggests that up to >20 billion mammals are killed by those cats each year. Quick Google search says that there are fewer than 60 million domestic pet cats in the US, and about the same number of feral cats. So on average domestic cats kill up to >150 mammals a day? And since not all of them are allowed outdoors, those supposed killer outdoor cats would practically kill an animal every few seconds. Looking at…

You said it yourself - domestic vs unowned. People aren’t counting unowned cats en masse, and domestication is the root cause of those feral cats. Also, their range is lower bound 3* your numbers, so there’s no need to cherry pick the highest end of all ranges here.

Whether they’re right or not, it’s plausible and probable that cats are a problem. Biggest problem? Who knows

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#172

Post by 7thaccount »

23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

I took my dead yard and added about a dozen apple, fig, and shade trees. This brought some birds for sure. I would still expect to see more though given the seed I put out.

I'm guessing massive cities and suburban sprawl are a big part of the problem. Most yards are literally just grass which often requires tons of weed killer and fertilizer in some areas. As a society we're so dumb sometimes. My mother also has a bunch of cats and they've killed dozens of birds over the years. That probably adds up.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#174

Post by doctorpangloss »

colpabar wrote: post #170
doctorpangloss wrote: post #165

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know. It is just as likely that if Tom Steyer couldn't donate to candidates who support his idiosyncratic ecological causes, those causes would be even less relevant politically than they are now. The Green New Deal evaporated for many reasons, certainly one of which was the rising of interest rates, which caused spending everywhere, like campaign donations, to fall. Everywhere we look, greater spending - in…

[flagged]

I can't wrap my mind around what your gotchya is. Maybe this maze is not meant for you.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#175

Post by da39a3ee »

HideousKojima wrote: post #102
da39a3ee wrote: post #52

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yes, those birds are basically human commensals -- thriving in urban environments. (Not sandpipers though! I wonder what you meant there?) But being serious -- are you familiar with some of the species that you only see if you go to genuine natural habitat? They are beautiful things, it is very rewarding to see them in their natural habitat, and if humans do not preserve natural habitat they will be lost forever.

>Not sandpipers though! I wonder what you meant there? We've got a few blocks of open fields right next to our house and there are several families of sandpipers (or some other sort of curlew I guess?) that nest in the grass. We actually have a huge wild migratory bird refuge about 10 miles away, so we've seen all sorts of bird life.

Ah right, Killdeers I'm thinking?

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#176

Post by zmgsabst »

vhlhvjcov wrote: post #109
prepend wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> When you put the onus on the individual, powerful organisations will jump at the opportunity to absolve themselves of blame. Powerful organizations already absolved themselves. Check out the headline. Also, this doesn’t put the onus on individuals. Individuals aren’t responsible for the change, but they are powerful enough to do something. Doing something doesn’t mean doing everything.

The question to me is: what is the thing I should do? Where should I invest my energy? Time and energy are finite resources and taking political action to drive systemic change has proven results (see previous examples). I don’t know of any transformative movement against mass threat to human life that hasn’t relied on some form of top-down implementation to achieve its aims. Maybe environmental vegetarianism in the…

But they didn’t start with top down action:

Sustained political movements that drive results build upwards through the layers outlined, because that’s how you change culture — and politics is downstream of culture.

We live in a democracy, so if you don’t convince your neighbors first, then politicians will correctly respect the majority’s wishes over yours.

COVID is a great counter example:

The reason that it destroyed our society and has led to years of bitter fighting that’s doing massive damage to public health is precisely because it was authoritarian policy lacking public consensus — and now is likely to destroy many of the institutions that supported it in the backlash, as the public investigates gain of function, PSYOPs, ineffective policy interventions, etc.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#177

Post by westurner »

jeffbee wrote: post #83
23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

"Bird-friendly yard" is probably the most counterproductive of these. Habitat loss is far and away the biggest problem that birds face. Anyone having a yard is the problem. People must learn to congregate in compact development forms and leave the land for the animals, if they care about having animals. Probably the only easy life change individuals can do is not eat meat and not buy ethanol. That would return tons o…

"Air pollution particles may be cause of dramatic drop in global insect numbers" (2023) https://www.sciencedaily.com/releases/2023/07/230712124747.h... :

> Researchers report that an insect's ability to find food and a mate is reduced when their antennae are contaminated by particulate matter from industry, transport, bushfires, and other sources of air pollution.

So catalytic converters, catalytic combustors, AGR Acidic Gas Reduction, Net Zero homes and vehicles etc. may be pretty impactful.

(In addition to planting and allowing clover and dandelions for the bees; and leaving longer grass for fireflies and ticks and CO2 capture and grasshoppers)

An herbicide that doesn't kill clover would make for prettier lawns; but the non-grass plants in the lawn are the food of the insects, which are the food of the birds.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#179

Post by paulcole »

jemmyw wrote: post #169
paulcole wrote: post #155

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There’s a bunch of statistics that just sound like nonsense and get repeated on the internet constantly. On the Mt. Rushmore of this list is the cats killing billions of birds a year. Another one is how efficient dishwashers are compared to hand washing dishes.

That depends enormously on what 'efficient' means. They certainly save a lot of time so that's an efficiency. They do use less water for the same amount of washing, so they are more efficient with water. The only problem with that is that, just with most efficiency gains, the result is more consumption. In this case, dirtying more dishes. So I would argue dishwashers are demonstrably more efficient than hand washing…

> So I would argue dishwashers are demonstrably more efficient than hand washing dishes

Yeah my argument is that this is nonsense. Just turn the tap off often when you’re scrubbing the dishes (use the water for rinsing) and it should be obvious that you’re using less water — particularly when you take into account the fact that a dishwasher uses 4 gallons of water no matter how many dishes are in it.

Under ideal conditions perhaps a modern dishwasher comes out ahead, but again maybe the ideal Rambo bird-killing-machine cat is also capable of decimating local bird populations.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#180

Post by jjtheblunt »

dmvdoug wrote: post #164
tnias23 wrote: post #132

Like almost every other goddamn problem we face, the solution is boring as hell: campaign finance reform. If politicians actually represented their constituents, they would be able to effect the policy changes required. But they don’t, because campaign finance is broken, allowing the richest, most blood-sucking elements of society to have the biggest influence. If you have the opportunity to vote for someone who beli…

The problem with your voting solution is that the Supreme Court has constitutionalized the issue. Getting money out of politics in America is going to require a constitutional amendment.

How has the Supreme Court constitutionalized the issue?
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