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A third of North America’s birds have vanished

nautil.us

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Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#61

Post by JKCalhoun »

tspike wrote: post #54
leeoniya wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

pollution, habitat destruction, and climate change are not all different things. i guess you can blame all the above on a single root cause, though: human over-population. we just don't have plagues and famines like we used to; we're really good at killing everything that we don't like. i see my neighbors dousing their lawn with weed killer and pesticides every season, followed by grass nutrients! then burn 2gal of g…

Don’t forget that if you don’t saturate your lawn with poison, coat it with industrial fertilizer, water it from depleted aquifers and burn that gasoline to cut it, you run the risk of getting fined or being foreclosed upon.

The HOA will pay you a visit at the very least.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#62

Post by MattGaiser »

23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

That gets dismissed as “virtue signalling” as “it won’t make a significant difference.”

That is basically the Conservative rank and file line for why Canada shouldn’t reduce emissions. They say “we are only 1.5% of emissions, so it won’t matter.”

I am not arguing that your way is bad, but that there will be stiff resistance either way. At least with government, you just need to win once and inertia means that it likely sticks.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#63

Post by MattGaiser »

leeoniya wrote: post #5

climate change is always framed in terms of how many coastal people it will affect when sea levels rise a few meters. the canadian wildfires going on now. the only thing i hear about it in the media is how bad the air quality will be in this or that city, or how many oil/gas/logging jobs will be lost. the amount wildlife that is being displaced or burned alive? fuck it! did you hear that 10k humans had to be evacuate…

If you aren't motivated by smoke in your lungs, you aren't going to be motivated by coral destruction.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#64

Post by jacquesm »

aperson_hello wrote: post #27
leeoniya wrote: post #5

climate change is always framed in terms of how many coastal people it will affect when sea levels rise a few meters. the canadian wildfires going on now. the only thing i hear about it in the media is how bad the air quality will be in this or that city, or how many oil/gas/logging jobs will be lost. the amount wildlife that is being displaced or burned alive? fuck it! did you hear that 10k humans had to be evacuate…

Who are we kidding...It'll recover within a century or so without humans. Millions of years for birds to re-evolve, but general recovery happens pretty quickly!! We're getting bombarded with messages from the fossil fuel industry like "recycle," "ban nuclear," "ban straws," "ban plastic bags" that distract from the industry's real impact. If we want to solve the problem, we have to focus on the core issue: burning fo…

> and we're moving towards saving ourselves

I'd say we're still moving away from that.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#65

Post by zizee »

leeoniya wrote: post #20
themitigating wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Pollution is a problem for everyone. We need government regulations and every single person changing their lifestyle but guess what, it won't happen. We had peak awareness in the 80s and 90s, I remember in school time was dedicated to ecology and the environment. Now half the US is actively working against environmentalism. You're blaming the media for not talking about species going extint but about flooding. If peo…

> If people don't change even with the threat of human life being lost then there's no way they care if multiple species of birds goes extinct. people won't change. they are addicted to convenience, low prices, diversity in options, and unlimited availability. which is also great for corporate profits. as a species, humans plan and invest very little beyond our own lifetimes. but we're just animals after all. all the…

> all the talk about becoming an interplanetary (mars) species for our own survival has to be the most absurd statement that can be made to dismiss the very real problems...but billionaires need an excuse to play Tony Stark.

This is a thinly veiled dig at Elon musk. It's so weird that you think what he's doing is the problem, with his efforts bringing about electric cars earlier than what would have happened.

He might be a loud mouth jerk, but surely he's not symbolic of the real problem here?

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#67

Post by jacquesm »

themitigating wrote: post #49
jmye wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What do you think Norway’s primary export is, speaking of blaming the right people?

They are at fault for being suppliers? If they don't supply oil someone else will. Like blaming prostitutes instead of johns

But not that oil.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#68

Post by leeoniya »

themitigating wrote: post #47
leeoniya wrote: post #31

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Look at nordic countries. Norway has a seed vault and has 80% of new cars are electric. 80% of 0.001% is a rounding error. scale matters. just because a first-world country of 5M can do something does not make this attainable for the other 99.999% of the human population. > Renewables in Europe are still moving at great speed imo, nuclear (not fusion, mind you) + electric, is the only realistic way out of the energ…

I'm referring to their achievements as a country not the impact. My point is it's cultural

> My point is it's cultural

they didnt get your message in Nigeria

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#69

Post by 23B1 »

MattGaiser wrote: post #62
23B1 wrote: post #35

One thing I dislike the most about these problems – and the information/media/activism around them – is the "solutioning". Yes, we should recycle and reduce carbon emissions and learn to live in a more integrated fashion with earth. But the problem is so diffuse and requires substantive work against powerful forces (government, business, apathy). What I'd like to see more of, when presented with these sorts of proble…

That gets dismissed as “virtue signalling” as “it won’t make a significant difference.” That is basically the Conservative rank and file line for why Canada shouldn’t reduce emissions. They say “we are only 1.5% of emissions, so it won’t matter.” I am not arguing that your way is bad, but that there will be stiff resistance either way. At least with government, you just need to win once and inertia means that it like…

I disagree. If you can see immediate benefits in your neighborhood – for instance, more birds showing up – then 'acting locally, thinking globally' is more effective than the reverse.

Re: A third of North America’s birds have vanished

#70

Post by ryandrake »

foobarian wrote: post #53
hasmanean wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not over-population. Over consumption. Actually over-production since a lot of food is wasted before consumption.

But why is over-consumption even possible? It's the plentiful cheap energy in the form of fossil fuels that we figured out how to tap into. Once that is gone I am hopeful the next civilization cycle will be more temperate.

More likely once the current civilization’s cheap source of energy is gone, the next civilization will revert to the pre-industrial source of cheap energy: slavery.
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