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Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

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Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#141

Post by facorreia »

csears wrote: post #114
valar_m wrote: post #70

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just some friendly advice man, I seriously doubt your company wants to be associated with any of this, so you may want to take them out of your profile. The west coast is waking up soon, don't wait around to do it.

Good point. I have removed my employers from my bio. I don't think there was any implication that they were at all involved or endorsed anything I'm saying here, but it never hurts to avoid any potential backlash. Thanks for pointing that out.

Friendly tip: you might want to remove them from your Linkedin profile too (or remove the link to your website from your HN bio).

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#142

Post by csears »

ksherlock wrote: post #128
badpun wrote: post #35

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I always wonder where's the legal boundary of abetting. If I sell a cartel member a pack of chewing gum at a gas station, I'm probably not abetting. But what if I'm a book store owner, I know the customer is a chemist for the cartel, and I sell him a chemistry book? Is that criminal? Why/why not?

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R43769.pdf -- Accomplices, Aiding and Abetting, and the Like: An Overview of 18 U.S.C. § 2 Conviction under Section 2(a) requires that a defendant embrace the crime of another and consciously do something to contribute to its success. Although its elements are variously described, it is often said that, “[i]n order to aid and abet another to commit a crime it is necessary [1] that a defen…

I appreciate you pointing out that specific statue and sharing your interpretation. My idea would have non-criminal use cases as well, but I'm not clear if that is sufficient. Criminals can use Telegram to communicate about crimes. Does that mean that Telegram is aiding and abetting? I'm definitely out of my depth on the legal details, which is why I would get good legal advice before doing anything.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#143

Post by csears »

derekja wrote: post #121
csears wrote: post #24

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good advice. I know there have been situations where federal agencies have turned out to be "the bad guys", but I guess I'm optimistic that they are generally smart, well intentioned, and interested in some of the same outcomes that I'm talking about. As to why I'm exploring this, it's just a topic I've been thinking about lately. My daughter is starting college in the fall and they've had a lot of deaths over the la…

"lot of deaths over the last few years from fentanyl in pot." Can you share a case where this has been confirmed? There was some hysteria in Connecticut last year, but my understanding is that this has never actually happened. I'd love to see a pointer to a coroner's report on a case of accidental fentanyl ingestion from laced pot having led to an overdose. I have seen cases of fentanyl test strips coming up positive…

I'll try to find a good source to back up the claim. The statement was made in a verbal, in-person presentation by the deputy chief of the university police, who was told by the city coroner. But for all I know, he could have made it up in an attempt to scare the kids.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#144

Post by latchkey »

csears wrote: post #136
FormerBandmate wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re thinking of cartel members like they’re VCs. They’re gangsters. They “assert control” over everything and everyone, that’s what gangsters do and they’re literally the worst ones around. There is no way you can do anything with them that will not put yourself and your family in danger

One could argue that cartel members and VCs do share some qualities. But again, your point is well taken and you may very well be right. I won't move forward if there isn't a safe, legal path to do so. I appreciate your feedback.

This plan sounds right up there with:

I've got a carbon fiber submarine controlled with a $30 joystick and a screen screwed into the side of the hull. Want to go for a ride?

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#145

Post by bwoodcock »

csears wrote: post #136
FormerBandmate wrote: post #117

Earlier quoted context omitted.

You’re thinking of cartel members like they’re VCs. They’re gangsters. They “assert control” over everything and everyone, that’s what gangsters do and they’re literally the worst ones around. There is no way you can do anything with them that will not put yourself and your family in danger

One could argue that cartel members and VCs do share some qualities. But again, your point is well taken and you may very well be right. I won't move forward if there isn't a safe, legal path to do so. I appreciate your feedback.

The safe, legal way to contact everyone is to publish in the commons. Establish prior art and do not claim intellectual property protections for the idea.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#146

Post by csears »

ttul wrote: post #115
csears wrote: post #64

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's good to know. I've only done a little initial research around this. I ordered some test strips from a manufacture called MD-Bio ( https://mdbio.com ). I'll be sure to review all their instructions and safety info. Out of curiosity, are you saying that a Fentanyl level can be so low that it's undetectable by the test strips, but still high enough to kill someone?

First, fentanyl is only one of many adjuvants that are mixed with illegal street drugs. Far more exotic compounds exist and are circulating. The issue is that illegal drug labs aren’t necessarily mixing the adjuvant in correctly. There can be “hot spots” where a granule of the toxic drug is not properly distributed, leading to some part of a sample having a vastly higher concentration than others. So when you test yo…

Thanks for the extra details here. I can see how challenging it would be to know with a high degree of certainty that a drug was truly safe just using test strips. But it seems like the test strips are a practical, relatively low cost option that, while not perfect, could improve the status quo.

Test strips aren't the only option that I'm investigating. I know there are some facilities that will do lab tests to check for fentanyl and other dangerous additives. That might end up being a better approach.

I have family and friends with pharmaceutical industry, chemistry, and medical/healthcare backgrounds that I've reached out to for advice on the issue, especially the question of weather it's possible to safely use the test strips with a low risk of some kind of exposure.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#147

Post by valar_m »

csears wrote: post #131
withinboredom wrote: post #37

In my limited experience with “Cartels”… there are two kinds of people: ruthless and rational; ruthless and irrational. If they are anywhere near the top, you can bet they are the first type. It seems you want to deal with multiple cartels at the same time. This is suicide. If you do it anyway, treat them all equally, show no favoritism, never compare them. Think of it as having a bunch of aunt/uncles who always tell…

I appreciate your take. I agree that working with multiple cartels would be risky, but it seems like working with just one cartel would also be risky. I'm not sure which is the better option. Ideally, I'd prefer to work with more of them. And on your other point, there would be hardware and software involved, but the cartels wouldn't be interacting with them directly. I'll be sure to have the cartels sign my EULA bef…

Ugh, damnit man delete this one, it gives it away. Do it quick before too many people see it.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#148

Post by csears »

facorreia wrote: post #123

This post left me with several questions. You mentioned that you want to improve drug cartel profit margins. Is that the reason why you want to connect to them directly instead of sharing your idea publicly? Are you planning to propose sharing on some of that profit margin increase on drug dealing? Is this some sort of "growth hacking" for drug cartels? Is your company on board with you working for drug cartels? And…

Thanks for the questions. Allow me to answer/clarify.

Improving drug cartel profit margins is not a direct goal. Reducing deaths and violence is the goal, but I don't see a way to do that without getting the cartels to change how they operate a bit. The only way I can think of to get them to want to change is with economic incentives. They seem to not respond to other types of incentives/punishments. If you have thoughts on what might motivate them other than profits, I'd love to hear it.

No, I have no interest in making money from this idea or sharing profits with the cartels. Doing so would obviously be illegal and I'm only looking for legal pathways to achieve my goals.

No, I wouldn't describe it as "growth hacking". I'm not interested in growing their businesses, just exploring creative options that might reduce the death/violence. I'm speaking here in a purely personal capacity. My employer has not endorsed anything I'm discussing, nor would I ask/expect them to. I recognize that there is a possibility of some negative blowback from this post. If they asked me to, I would be happy to delete it. It's certainly not my intent to embarrass anyone or create negative associations with my employer. My hope is that if my company's leadership does come across the post, they would recognize that there was good intent behind it and don't feel the need to cut ties with me to avoid repetitional damage over a fairly abstract/hypothetical discussion on a forum where users compete to gain the attention of other people in the community. It is nuanced and not without some professional risk, but I'm pretty sure my employer would give me a chance to fix things if they felt there was a problem.

Your question about the mods is a little too leading/loaded for me to simply confirm or deny. All I will say is that the post was flagged last night, I emailed the moderation team, Dang emailed me back and unflagged the post. If Dang is ok with it, I'd be happy to post his email here, but I don't want to assume that he would want comments he made privately to be shared publicly.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#149

Post by klyrs »

csears wrote: post #49
valar_m wrote: post #43

Don't stress about the cartel. You'll be arrested long before you ever get into contact with them. Instead, here a few things to help minimize the number of years you'll spend in prison away from your daughter and the rest of your family. You mentioned meeting with the DEA in another comment. Bring a lawyer when you go. You'll have to call around to find one who will agree to put you in jeopardy of criminal prosecuti…

I appreciate your comment, but it feels a bit cynical to be more afraid of federal agents than drug cartels. Then again, I don't have much experience with either, so maybe I'm being naive. That was partially why I was asking how to find a lawyer who deals with situations like this.

> so maybe I'm being naive.

Well you got that one thing right, you are incredibly naive. If you want to reduce harm, volunteer at a safe injection site or try to start one up in your home town. If you want to cozy up between the feds and the cartels as an "innocent," with no knowledge of how anything works, tell your daughter you love her every day because you won't know which will be your last.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#150

Post by csears »

facorreia wrote: post #141
csears wrote: post #114

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Good point. I have removed my employers from my bio. I don't think there was any implication that they were at all involved or endorsed anything I'm saying here, but it never hurts to avoid any potential backlash. Thanks for pointing that out.

Friendly tip: you might want to remove them from your Linkedin profile too (or remove the link to your website from your HN bio).

Done. Thank you.
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