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Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

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Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#131

Post by csears »

withinboredom wrote: post #37

In my limited experience with “Cartels”… there are two kinds of people: ruthless and rational; ruthless and irrational. If they are anywhere near the top, you can bet they are the first type. It seems you want to deal with multiple cartels at the same time. This is suicide. If you do it anyway, treat them all equally, show no favoritism, never compare them. Think of it as having a bunch of aunt/uncles who always tell…

I appreciate your take. I agree that working with multiple cartels would be risky, but it seems like working with just one cartel would also be risky. I'm not sure which is the better option. Ideally, I'd prefer to work with more of them.

And on your other point, there would be hardware and software involved, but the cartels wouldn't be interacting with them directly. I'll be sure to have the cartels sign my EULA before proceeding with anything.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#132

Post by csears »

boeingUH60 wrote: post #130
csears wrote: post #50

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I'm very aware of just how horrifically violent cartels can be. I'm not ignoring that or condoning their behavior. Historically, there have been many instances of powerful groups of people willing to commit atrocities to stay in power. In some cases, it's still useful to attempt to negotiate or explore peaceful solutions. When you're negotiating, it's often useful to look for some kind of mutually beneficial outcome…

You don't negotiate with raving madmen. Violence is their only language.

You may be right, but it's not clear to me they are totally irrational. The fact that they seem to have business partnerships with chemical suppliers in Asia would suggest that they are capable of cooperating when it suits their interests.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#133

Post by duped »

csears wrote: post #119
duped wrote: post #79

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It'll be a fun story at parties after you serve up to 4 years in federal prison for each time you use a communication device in this venture (21 USC § 843 b) and then get to spend however many years in state prisons for criminal facilitation. Just keep in mind there's no parole for Federal crimes.

So you're saying that Zoom would be a bad option?

Everything about this is illegal

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#134

Post by FormerBandmate »

valar_m wrote: post #43

Don't stress about the cartel. You'll be arrested long before you ever get into contact with them. Instead, here a few things to help minimize the number of years you'll spend in prison away from your daughter and the rest of your family. You mentioned meeting with the DEA in another comment. Bring a lawyer when you go. You'll have to call around to find one who will agree to put you in jeopardy of criminal prosecuti…

Why would you ever deliberately put yourself in jeopardy of criminal prosecution ever

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#135

Post by duped »

csears wrote: post #107
kordlessagain wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only important reason this particular ego fueled "idea" is a bad one is because if someone is actively involved in planning or conspiring to commit a crime, they may be held liable for their actions. Intent and preparation to engage in illegal activities can have legal consequences, even if the actual crime is not carried out. This post should be flagged and taken down.

I appreciate the feedback. I don't have a way to prove it, but I'm really not concerned with ego/fame in any of this. I've also stated several places that I plan to get legal advice from a real lawyer before moving forward with anything. As far as I know, I haven't discussed doing anything illegal. I've clearly said that if there is not a legal path forward, I'll drop the idea. Also, the post did get flagged last nig…

> As far as I know, I haven't discussed doing anything illegal.

Everything you've discussed is illegal. Knowingly helping someone else commit a crime is also a crime. Knowingly helping someone distribute scheduled drugs is a crime.

The only way doing any of this isn't illegal is if by happenstance your service/product is perfect for illegal activity. But most of the time there are other regulations that would make it impossible for you to provide that product/service without knowing it was being used for crime. But you don't even get away with that, since this post is proof against you.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#136

Post by csears »

FormerBandmate wrote: post #117
csears wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not lost on me. Obviously it would be a tough balance to strike to remain "useful" to the cartels, while not being "too useful" that they would feel the need to exert control. That's why I'm interested in educating myself more fully on the whole situation so I can make an informed risk assessment. If there's no path forward that also kept my family and myself safe, I won't pursue it further.

You’re thinking of cartel members like they’re VCs. They’re gangsters. They “assert control” over everything and everyone, that’s what gangsters do and they’re literally the worst ones around. There is no way you can do anything with them that will not put yourself and your family in danger

One could argue that cartel members and VCs do share some qualities. But again, your point is well taken and you may very well be right. I won't move forward if there isn't a safe, legal path to do so. I appreciate your feedback.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#137

Post by valar_m »

csears wrote: post #131
withinboredom wrote: post #37

In my limited experience with “Cartels”… there are two kinds of people: ruthless and rational; ruthless and irrational. If they are anywhere near the top, you can bet they are the first type. It seems you want to deal with multiple cartels at the same time. This is suicide. If you do it anyway, treat them all equally, show no favoritism, never compare them. Think of it as having a bunch of aunt/uncles who always tell…

I appreciate your take. I agree that working with multiple cartels would be risky, but it seems like working with just one cartel would also be risky. I'm not sure which is the better option. Ideally, I'd prefer to work with more of them. And on your other point, there would be hardware and software involved, but the cartels wouldn't be interacting with them directly. I'll be sure to have the cartels sign my EULA bef…

> I'll be sure to have the cartels sign my EULA before proceeding with anything.

There it is. I knew it couldn't be real. Thank god. No joke, I was actually worrying about you lol. Well done.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#138

Post by rocky_raccoon »

csears wrote: post #131
withinboredom wrote: post #37

In my limited experience with “Cartels”… there are two kinds of people: ruthless and rational; ruthless and irrational. If they are anywhere near the top, you can bet they are the first type. It seems you want to deal with multiple cartels at the same time. This is suicide. If you do it anyway, treat them all equally, show no favoritism, never compare them. Think of it as having a bunch of aunt/uncles who always tell…

I appreciate your take. I agree that working with multiple cartels would be risky, but it seems like working with just one cartel would also be risky. I'm not sure which is the better option. Ideally, I'd prefer to work with more of them. And on your other point, there would be hardware and software involved, but the cartels wouldn't be interacting with them directly. I'll be sure to have the cartels sign my EULA bef…

> I'll be sure to have the cartels sign my EULA before proceeding with anything

Okay, this whole post is a bit. Thanks for entertaining us, OP. Many of us were generally worried for your safety.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#139

Post by Michelangelo11 »

FormerBandmate wrote: post #117
csears wrote: post #111

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's not lost on me. Obviously it would be a tough balance to strike to remain "useful" to the cartels, while not being "too useful" that they would feel the need to exert control. That's why I'm interested in educating myself more fully on the whole situation so I can make an informed risk assessment. If there's no path forward that also kept my family and myself safe, I won't pursue it further.

You’re thinking of cartel members like they’re VCs. They’re gangsters. They “assert control” over everything and everyone, that’s what gangsters do and they’re literally the worst ones around. There is no way you can do anything with them that will not put yourself and your family in danger

Right, exactly. In Mexico, they dismember people and leave their legs, heads, etc. lying around on the street as a warning. And OP wants to see if there's a way to keep his family safe from them so he can get into business with them? That's like looking for a way to dive to the bottom of the Mariana trench without having the pressure flatten you into a very small, wet pancake.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#140

Post by csears »

ttul wrote: post #112

Instead of risking your life, ruining your career, and ending up on do-not-fly lists, why not get involved in politics? If your idea has merit, promote it through the actual democratic process. Your concept of working with cartels is beyond ridiculous and I wonder how you could have possibly developed such a naive and flawed view of how crime works.

Getting involved with politics had crossed my mind. On this issue specifically, I suspect there are policy think tanks that might be open to giving me some advice. Maybe handing the idea off to one of them and letting them pursue related policy changes might be a better option. In my experience, lawmakers don't pay much attention to random people on HN.
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