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Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

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Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#121

Post by derekja »

csears wrote: post #24
raincom wrote: post #22

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Be careful dealing with federal agents and federal agencies. They can get you for "lying to federal agents". Always have a lawyer next to you, so that this lawyer can take notes, thereby preventing you from being charged under "trumped up charges". I don't know why you are exploring this area, unless you want to spend some time in some federal penitentiary.

Good advice. I know there have been situations where federal agencies have turned out to be "the bad guys", but I guess I'm optimistic that they are generally smart, well intentioned, and interested in some of the same outcomes that I'm talking about. As to why I'm exploring this, it's just a topic I've been thinking about lately. My daughter is starting college in the fall and they've had a lot of deaths over the la…

"lot of deaths over the last few years from fentanyl in pot."

Can you share a case where this has been confirmed? There was some hysteria in Connecticut last year, but my understanding is that this has never actually happened. I'd love to see a pointer to a coroner's report on a case of accidental fentanyl ingestion from laced pot having led to an overdose.

I have seen cases of fentanyl test strips coming up positive, but only with incidental contamination rather than anything in concentrations that are actually hazardous. Fentanyl decomposes at under 300 degrees and pot burns at 450, so it is not actually a viable route to ingestion.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#122

Post by TheAlchemist »

dt3ft wrote: post #85

Is this how you do growth engineering? Quite a few people looked you and the company you work for up. Is that the end game? :)

My thoughts exactly after visiting his website - it’s seems like some kind of attention catching technique.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#123

Post by facorreia »

This post left me with several questions.

You mentioned that you want to improve drug cartel profit margins. Is that the reason why you want to connect to them directly instead of sharing your idea publicly?

Are you planning to propose sharing on some of that profit margin increase on drug dealing? Is this some sort of "growth hacking" for drug cartels? Is your company on board with you working for drug cartels?

And finally, did you mention that HN mods are OK with the site being used as a medium for assisting in contacting drug cartels with intent of increasing their profit margins?

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#124

Post by ttul »

csears wrote: post #5
jacknobody wrote: post #2

You are planning suicide. It's that simple. You have nothing in common with the people who run drug cartels; it would be as safe to meet with grizzly bears.

You might be right. I would be happy with a Zoom meeting.

Are you truly that stupid to think that the following is true:

1. That an actual cartel rep would be the person you are talking to, vs. someone undercover with law enforcement who is merely lining up facts with which to arrest and charge you?

2. That, assuming they do work for a cartel, they are going to tell you the truth, rather than just lying to you so you will give you the supposedly breakthrough idea, after which they will have you executed to ensure their competitors don’t get the same idea?

3. That, assuming you aren’t executed by the cartel, they don’t kidnap you to secure your ongoing help as their slave to flesh out the concept before executing you and putting your body in a hole in the desert? And while they hold you, they will show you photos of your daughter, who is under surveillance, while they torture you with the notion that any lack of ongoing full cooperation will result in her intentional poising and death?

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#125

Post by valar_m »

csears wrote: post #107
kordlessagain wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only important reason this particular ego fueled "idea" is a bad one is because if someone is actively involved in planning or conspiring to commit a crime, they may be held liable for their actions. Intent and preparation to engage in illegal activities can have legal consequences, even if the actual crime is not carried out. This post should be flagged and taken down.

I appreciate the feedback. I don't have a way to prove it, but I'm really not concerned with ego/fame in any of this. I've also stated several places that I plan to get legal advice from a real lawyer before moving forward with anything. As far as I know, I haven't discussed doing anything illegal. I've clearly said that if there is not a legal path forward, I'll drop the idea. Also, the post did get flagged last nig…

> I'm really not concerned with ego/fame in any of this.

You've said twice that you think it will be a fun story to tell at parties. You claim the idea was inspired by a night when you called the police because your wife's friend didn't respond to her text messages. The police came and the couple you called them on told you to go away. Nothing happened, and yet you somehow think you may have saved someone's life:

> At this point, we decided to knock on the door. The husband answered, clearly unhappy we were there. We said we just wanted to make sure the friend was ok. He told us to get off his property or he would call the police. We agreed to leave but told him we had already called the police. My wife got a text shortly after that from the friend saying that she was ok, but thanking us for checking on her. We waited for the police to arrive (about 10 minutes later) and we drove home.

> Long story, but I've thought about that night a lot. I think we did the right thing. If we had done nothing, and the friend been hurt somehow, I would have felt horrible knowing that I might have been able to prevent it and didn't

No, it's 100% about ego.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#126

Post by boeingUH60 »

NotDEA wrote: post #25

Hey Chris, I’m a pretty high ranking member in the Sinaloa Cartel that also browses HN in my free time. Customers always come first in our line of work, so I’m always looking for ways to provide a high quality, safe experience with the drugs we provide and this idea sounds like it could be a game changer not just for us cartels, but also for savvy entrepreneurs like yourself. I reached out directly to the email you p…

You're definitely not DEA :) but Maybe FBI, DHS, ICE, or one of the endless other enforcement agencies that would throw the books at this naive aspiring drug entrepreneur.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#127

Post by csears »

tehwebguy wrote: post #83
csears wrote: post #63

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I see your point. That is certainly a possibility. Although it would be highly inconvenient to be arrested or get in trouble with the feds, it would make for an interesting story at parties. That's always been something I've struggled with. So... silver lining? A lot of historical figures I respect have been arrested for standing by their convictions. So I would be in good company. It also could turn into a good oppo…

Being arrested a single time can put you on an entirely different track in life. It’s not a death sentence, but it would probably permanently change your life for the worse (and that’s assuming you aren’t convicted). The biggest problem is that you don’t know what you don’t know, and what you don’t know can kill you in this scenario. Nobody that works in enforcement will believe you are a good person, if you were you…

I'm certainly going to do my best to not get arrested, or be in a situation where anyone in law enforcement would want to arrest me. As far as I know, it's not illegal to ask for advice about a legally ambiguous situation.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#128

Post by ksherlock »

badpun wrote: post #35
xcdzvyn wrote: post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If it turns out there is no legal way to move ahead with my idea, No, there is no legal way to "move ahead" with abetting drug cartels.

I always wonder where's the legal boundary of abetting. If I sell a cartel member a pack of chewing gum at a gas station, I'm probably not abetting. But what if I'm a book store owner, I know the customer is a chemist for the cartel, and I sell him a chemistry book? Is that criminal? Why/why not?

https://sgp.fas.org/crs/misc/R43769.pdf -- Accomplices, Aiding and Abetting, and the Like: An Overview of 18 U.S.C. § 2

Conviction under Section 2(a) requires that a defendant embrace the crime of another and consciously do something to contribute to its success. Although its elements are variously described, it is often said that, “[i]n order to aid and abet another to commit a crime it is necessary [1] that a defendant in some sort associate himself with the venture, [2] that he participate in it as in something that he wishes to bring about, [3]that he seek by his action to make it succeed,” and [4] that someone commits the offense. Satisfying only one of these elements is not enough. Thus, presence at the commission of a crime or close association with the perpetrator does not constitute aiding and abetting, without more. Yet, a defendant’s level of participation may be relatively minimal and need not advance every element of the crime. As for seeking to make it succeed, the defendant must intend the commission of the underlying offense, and that intent requires that he be aware beforehand of the scope of the offense in order to permit him to disassociate himself. Thus, the defendant must know that the offense is afoot before it occurs if he is to be convicted of aiding and abetting.

--

So... it depends? If someone walks into your bookstore and says, "Hey, I want to cook up some meth" and you say "I know a great chemistry book but i'll have to special order it for you" that starts to look like association to me. But buying a book off the shelf, ehh, that's why you have books on the shelf. Guns are used in crimes. Cars are used in crimes. How often do you hear about car salesmen being arrested for aiding a bank robbery? Or gun salesman for a mass shooting?

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#129

Post by csears »

Someone wrote: post #103

I can think of only one reason you would want to meet cartels face-to-face: because you want a cut of the profits. If you get that, that would make you a criminal. Do you want to be one? If not, why don’t you just publish your idea and be the one who reduced fentanyl deaths and violence?

I have no interest in a cut of the profits. As I've stated elsewhere, I was hoping that establishing some form of communication might derisk the situation a little. If one-way communication is the only practical option, I'm fine with that.

Re: Ask HN: How could I safely contact drug cartels?

#130

Post by boeingUH60 »

csears wrote: post #50
VoodooJuJu wrote: post #45

One of the reasons I wish liveleak were still around is so people like you could see the world that most people don't get to see. If only you could see just one video from there with "cartel" in the title. Would give you a much-needed dose of reality.

I'm very aware of just how horrifically violent cartels can be. I'm not ignoring that or condoning their behavior. Historically, there have been many instances of powerful groups of people willing to commit atrocities to stay in power. In some cases, it's still useful to attempt to negotiate or explore peaceful solutions. When you're negotiating, it's often useful to look for some kind of mutually beneficial outcome…

You don't negotiate with raving madmen. Violence is their only language.
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