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Internet Archive expands Flash support

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201–210 of 231 posts

Re: Internet Archive expands Flash support

#201

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flash was a great technology for so many reasons. I really wish Adobe had open sourced it at the end. I suspect it would have paid dividends somehow. Flash died because Adobe couldn't get a version running on iOS that wasn't garbage. I was working with Adobe when the iPhone came out and they did have dev versions where it was running, but it was awful. Visibly laggy, nearly unusable. No real thought into UI mapping f…

I thought Flash died, because Apple did not want Flash to eat into their app store profits. So yes, Jobs shot it down several times, because Flash would have allowed games and apps outside the direct control of Apple. Flash could run great games and apps on Internet Explorer 6. If it was then impossible to get a non-garbage version on iOS, then maybe iOS was garbage. It was also hard to get a non-app store version of…

> If it was then impossible to get a non-garbage version on iOS, then maybe iOS was garbage.

Flash sucked ass on every single platform aside from Windows. Android, MacOS, Linux. Adobe sucked at porting.

Re: Internet Archive expands Flash support

#202

Earlier quoted context omitted.

cough cough Magento cough cough

Magento? The…eCommerce platform that did a small fraction of what Fishbowl did?

I wouldn’t know, haven’t worked too much w/ Fishbowl. I was mentioning Magento as another product Adobe bought and is slowly screwing up so badly they’re killing it.

They desperately want AEM to be the front end to headless Magento and cannot/will not put any effort into a storefront or services layer or anything MACH for fear of it competing w/ AEM.

They’re missing the boat and in 5 years Magento will have gone from an eCommerce market leader to trailing the pack and almost dead.

Re: Internet Archive expands Flash support

#203

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I thought Flash died, because Apple did not want Flash to eat into their app store profits. So yes, Jobs shot it down several times, because Flash would have allowed games and apps outside the direct control of Apple. Flash could run great games and apps on Internet Explorer 6. If it was then impossible to get a non-garbage version on iOS, then maybe iOS was garbage. It was also hard to get a non-app store version of…

> because Apple did not want Flash to eat into their app store profits Here's a fun fact nobody remembers anymore. Way back when (2010?) Adobe built a Flash feature that let you publish iOS apps. The feature went through an open beta and lots of flash devs made iOS apps, they worked fine, Apple accepted them into the app store, fun times. Then riiight as the tech left beta, Apple changed the iOS terms to nonsensicall…

I think Steve Jobs realized he could blame Adobe endlessly and people would believe it because … Adobe … and he could kill an App Store competitor.

Re: Internet Archive expands Flash support

#204
post #195

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Particularly for vector-based animated movies, can achieve much higher quality-per-bandwidth than compressed raster graphics, and are future-proofed to automatically handle higher video resolutions.

This part itself is probably a lost art forever. As are many things that required great efficiency. Apart from a few embedded specialties. I feel the same pain though, watching a HomestarRunner video or something by means of a 200MB video when I know the SWFs were like 100KB.

"watching a HomestarRunner video or something by means of a 200MB video when I know the SWFs were like 100KB."

WOW

Re: Internet Archive expands Flash support

#205

The thing I still miss about Flash is the authoring tool. It is one of the few bits of software that bridged a gap between artists and creators and coding in a way that totally democratised creating interactive websites. I see some similarities with Instagram filters and TikTok effects. The visual-layout-you-can-add-code-to approach, but Flash was so mainstream and capable in a way filters aren’t. I wish Adobe had do…

It's not just flash, all of web development has become very complex. In the early days, people would learn to make websites because they wanted to be web developers. They could make something in 5 minutes that was reasonably similar to what they would make if they achieved their goal of getting a job doing it. Now, in 5 minutes you can make a squarespace page, which is still impressive, but nowhere near something you…

>Now, in 5 minutes you can make a squarespace page, which is still impressive, but nowhere near something you could get a job doing.

there are tons of ppl who just need an interface that lets them efficiently gather money for their good/service. in that context the squarespace page is all they need.

most ppl STILL can't figure that out and pay someone to do it.

Re: Internet Archive expands Flash support

#206
Regarding a modern alternative to Flash, I just want to mention the Scrimba webdev learning platform [1], which leverages a custom built programming language [2] for making interactive courses and save the videos in an optimized vector format with a very small footprint.

It was released in a Launch HN 3 years ago [3]. Personally, I have used the platform to teach the basics of frontend web dev to my wife, and it was a great experience.

[1] https://scrimba.com/ [2] https://scrimba.com/learn/imba [3] https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=24579699

Re: Internet Archive expands Flash support

#207
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but there was a reason that we "didn't have much else in the way of video on the internet" at the time — bitmapped videos were far too bandwidth-intensive for most people to download in realtime . (You could still download them, and people sometimes did; but a 3-minute, 240p MPEG1/RealPlayer clip was something you'd need to dedicate a half-hour to fetching, either using a download manager or Limewire. It was no…

> Flash as a distribution format for video was distinctive and successful because it was essentially a standardized abstract machine for demoscene demos While it WAS true, it's not COMPLETELY true. The first versions of Flash had very little scripting support, it was basically limited to switching between scenes. The first Flash that could do something non-trivial was Flash 5, released some time in 2000 and by that t…

To be clear, I didn't (exactly) mean that the author of a Flash animation has to think in terms of creating a "demoscene demo." I rather meant that the Flash abstract machine is designed to primarily do the types of thing that demoscene demos do — i.e. to use vectors and gradient fills and clipping masks to achieve procedural visual effects. You could say that the SWF abstract machine has a "demoscene-alike Instruction Set Architecture." Most of the work of figuring out how to achieve particular visual effects on that abstract machine, though, is domain-knowledge built into the "Flash compiler" of the authoring tool.

In my previous post, I emphasized Flash as a distribution format for a reason. While the authoring tools (and the .FLA project format) do work with clean abstractions of a timeline with keyframes and tweens (and objects with their own swappable animations that have their own sub-timelines), the .SWF export format bakes all that down into an imperative program for an abstract machine whose primitive opcodes involve defining and moving around (potentially texture-filled) vector objects on a canvas. Writing SWF bytecode directly, would be similar to programming against a retained-mode fixed-function graphics API like OpenGL — just without any 3D support. In other words, it would be like writing a demoscene demo.

Or, to put that another way: the core of the .SWF export format — before all the user programmability stuff was added — is basically a cousin of PostScript, but with a finishRenderAndWaitForNextFrame command, and the ability to set spline points' velocities. Which is very much unlike declarative vector formats like SVG. The closest comparison, I think, might be to the object-oriented vector display-lists used in vector-based arcade machines (see e.g. https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=smStEPSRKBs.)

But, in both the arcade games I mentioned, and in Flash, if you've achieved the effect you want and are now optimizing the final work for size and performance, doing so will mostly be a matter of modularity and reuse of small repeatable design elements. Having "mechanical sympathy" for what the Flash export format looks like, will push you toward certain authoring decisions, e.g. building complex scenes using many smaller primitive objects that each independently animate (or in later versions of Flash, are independent state-machines); creating objects that can be uniform and so constructed by cloning rather than redefinition (leading to a surprising number of 2D flash animations and later games that were built out of colored, untextured voxel boxes); etc. And — despite there being no actual programming involved in the Flash animation authoring case — this is still very much akin to the process of optimizing a demoscene demo.

Re: Internet Archive expands Flash support

#208
post #32

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Yeah, but there was a reason that we "didn't have much else in the way of video on the internet" at the time — bitmapped videos were far too bandwidth-intensive for most people to download in realtime . (You could still download them, and people sometimes did; but a 3-minute, 240p MPEG1/RealPlayer clip was something you'd need to dedicate a half-hour to fetching, either using a download manager or Limewire. It was no…

> Flash as a distribution format for video was obsolete basically as soon as people's Internet connections improved enough that they could just stream the pre-rendered output of someone else rendering out the Flash animation program instead. (Which was around... 2010, I'd say?) Which also meant that, at that same moment, the "Flash aesthetic" of vectors and reusable resources basically instantaneously ceased to exist…

Yes, sorry, I should have said "Flash as a distribution format for Flash animations" there.

Re: Internet Archive expands Flash support

#209

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Flash really was something special. We created all kinds of training content in it (all of which was completely replaced with static text and images after all of our customers adopted iPads for doing associate training - Which where it still is today, extremely boring). We all these animated characters, with their own backstories and personalities, that each had their own professional voice talent. Associates in Asia…

> We created all kinds of training content in it How accessible was that training content for disabled people, particularly blind people with screen readers? Or was it about tasks that are inherently visual? Plain text is better in some ways.

were blind people with screen readers repairing printers?

Re: Internet Archive expands Flash support

#210
post #180

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> If Macromedia had a handle on it, it would not have been the dumpster fire it was when Adobe bought it. Flash was buggy as hell. No matter who owned it, Flash was a security nightmare throughout its existence , just as ActiveX and Java applets were. The key thing is, these things were created in a time when there were far less bad actors on the Internet - not just because finding an actually working version of IDA…

Truthfully though, what wasn't a security nightmare back then in some way? Doesn't negate what you said just actually trying to think of some positive rich media app technologies.

>Truthfully though, what wasn't a security nightmare back then in some way?

Collecting data from a form sent via POST to be processed server side?

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