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S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

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Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#521
post #452

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They work for the majority of people of all ages who live in cities where the infrastructure has been properly built to accommodate bikes. Most people rarely need to haul anything and can use carshare when they do. I've demoed a multistory house down to the bricks and re-built it from the outside in without a car. Hired someone to haul off a dumpster several times. For major materials deliveries, like beams or window…

> Most people rarely need to haul anything and can use carshare when they do. Heavy citation needed. I've been remodeling my home for the last 2 years and I'd say on regular (every other week or so) basis I've needed to pick up something from the hardware store that can't be biked home. When I buy groceries for the family for the week, I cannot bike those home. When I need to take a large package to the UPS store a b…

For startup on home remodeling, if you don't have access to a shop then yeah you are going to want to have a flat bed truck and/or trailer. Car just doesn't cut it, if it does you are mostly buying small tools or the like.

Everything else can be shipped, albeit for higher fees.

For groceries, you do need to have one within a reasonable distance, but a daily trip to the store more than suffices. You waste less, too. Since such a thing became locally available to us I have made almost no trips to the grocery store by car - those I have have been for specialty shops at longer distance, or the rare case of being tired/lazy/already out.

Transportation of large heavy packages and inclement weather are two areas there are no standard solutions, however there are enclosed designs, tricycles, and e-bikes - a small heating apparatus is all that's necessary to hold back e.g. the cold.

I think the point does stand, in that no its not "needed". It's mainly just a giant PITA when a bunch of unsafe half ton steel death traps are the "norm". The long distances between shops are also a function of the car.

On the flip side, no I don't think ride-share should be the only option, but a lot of people would fare much better without a car payment they don't really want or need.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#522
post #384

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the other reply to this post got downvoted to hell. THe person has a point. Fully autonomous cars are cool... don't get me wrong. But electric cars and autonomous electric/gas cars are probably not the right solution to our person transport needs. using energy to move a 4000 lb vehicle to transport one or two 200 lb humans is not energy-efficient... most of the energy is spent just moving the vehicle…

I hadn't even considered a bike in SF due to the rampant theft, despite not having a car and taking MUNI/BART daily. And SF is not alone in this. As a country we need to figure out how to bring out crime levels down. The few times I do call an Uber (or Waymo/Cruise if available), I am likely intoxicated or needing to get somewhere ASAP. We are very far away from public transit always be faster and biking while intoxi…

When I lived there, I used the bike share bikes often. They're widely available and eliminate having to worry about theft and locks.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#523

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely right. To situate in terms of recent events, there have been three stages of trying to delay / influence the California CPUC robotaxi expansion approval vote: 1. Tried a politician scare campaign. Failed because it was too transparent it was an attempted distraction from their terrible public safety record. 2. Tried coning and disabling the vehicles. Failed because it was too transparently astroturfed, leg…

I don't know why the other reply to this post got downvoted to hell. THe person has a point. Fully autonomous cars are cool... don't get me wrong. But electric cars and autonomous electric/gas cars are probably not the right solution to our person transport needs. using energy to move a 4000 lb vehicle to transport one or two 200 lb humans is not energy-efficient... most of the energy is spent just moving the vehicle…

Seems like we need all the transportation improvements we can get and that a single mode of transportation would not suffice.

Blind, old, drunk people, people with kids and or lots of groceries, people traveling long distances, and actual kids cannot simply take an e bike (I have two and love them btw).

People going on ski trips or with significant luggage cannot hop on an e bike.

So I for one welcome the reduction in pollution, cost and human error an electric autonomous car can provide.

I also think that vehicles could be much smaller, but still electric and autonomous vehicles which would agree partially with what you seem to think would be best.

A autonomous electric capsule that is weather protected traveling in its own protected lane programmed to go anywhere in a city seems ideal. These would likely be more efficient than buses and more precise in destination.

I’m astonished nowhere has done this, at least to my knowledge

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#524

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Absolutely right. To situate in terms of recent events, there have been three stages of trying to delay / influence the California CPUC robotaxi expansion approval vote: 1. Tried a politician scare campaign. Failed because it was too transparent it was an attempted distraction from their terrible public safety record. 2. Tried coning and disabling the vehicles. Failed because it was too transparently astroturfed, leg…

I don't know why the other reply to this post got downvoted to hell. THe person has a point. Fully autonomous cars are cool... don't get me wrong. But electric cars and autonomous electric/gas cars are probably not the right solution to our person transport needs. using energy to move a 4000 lb vehicle to transport one or two 200 lb humans is not energy-efficient... most of the energy is spent just moving the vehicle…

You're not wrong. It's not clear why we're not building something slightly heavier, but still lightweight that is inherently slightly more stable at a stop or very low speed (ie an electric tricycle). It would seem that something like that with an integrated roll cage would be a better solution.

That said, the problem with better solutions is that they need to not only compete with the existing solutions, but also coexist.

The problem with cars? People decided that bigger cars are safer: cars have gotten bigger and bigger.

Look at what a Toyota Camry looks like from 1987 vs. 2023.

1997: 174", 2235lbs. 2023: 192", 3284lbs.

That means a car grew 1.5 feet... 10%. But the mass? Up 50%, over 1000 lbs.

edit: (okay lbs are not mass, its force... but you know what I mean. Nobody talks in slugs)

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#525

Earlier quoted context omitted.

They work for the majority of people of all ages who live in cities where the infrastructure has been properly built to accommodate bikes. Most people rarely need to haul anything and can use carshare when they do. I've demoed a multistory house down to the bricks and re-built it from the outside in without a car. Hired someone to haul off a dumpster several times. For major materials deliveries, like beams or window…

You are not responsible for transporting children and / or their gear I see. At least one leg of every trip I make requires a larger vehicle. Oh, and I commute about 50 km each way ( 100 km total ) on a road heavily used by large trucks. I am not sure how small a vehicle I want to be in for that trip, especially after dark.

OP is suggesting that it's more efficient to change our whole road infrastructure in order to accommodate a partial solution he likes, instead of having an incremental upgrade that's so compatible with the existing infrastructure that you literally can't tell without looking up the model.

I use electric scooters extensively. I love them. I own an electric MTB. I really really wish all city centers would be for pedestrians and bikes only. But for the love of god, I cannot understand people who pretend that ebikes are a full solution to any transportation issues.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#526
post #219

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Man, and further up this post there was someone talking about running over groups of cyclists if they maliciously surrounded their car. Try to remain calm. You’re generally not allowed to just _murder_ people who attempt to inconvenience, detain, or rob you, even though they are ‘being dicks’. That’s not how crime is dealt with in a stable society. It’s not a ‘new reality’. I really hope we’re not devolving into a pl…

Equally we seem to be devolving to a place where more people think doing things like this is ok. The solution isn’t to run them over - your advice to remain calm is good. But we need harsh penalties for people that intentionally block traffic. Prison and life altering fines are a first step. This will absolutely deter this type of behavior.

> But we need harsh penalties for people that intentionally block traffic.

So for instance, the CEO of the self-driving car company should go to jail whenever one of their cars blocks a fire truck. Right?

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#527
post #153

>Cruise and Waymo say city officials have mischaracterized their safety track records. Their driverless taxis, the companies say, have lower collision rates than human drivers and public transit. This is comparing the mean driverless incident rate to the mean human driver incident rate. This is disingenuous, since a small minority of human drivers cause the vast majority of incidents, thereby severely inflating the m…

>This is comparing the mean driverless incident rate to the mean human driver incident rate. This is disingenuous, since a small minority of human drivers cause the vast majority of incidents, thereby severely inflating the mean human incident rate. Why is this disingenuous? Unless you're also for advocating for banning those top 10% of drivers from driving, you can't just cherry pick only the good drivers.

Banning those drivers does make sense, though. Repeat offenders (speeding, dangerous driving, etc) should just have their license revoked, right?

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#528

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the other reply to this post got downvoted to hell. THe person has a point. Fully autonomous cars are cool... don't get me wrong. But electric cars and autonomous electric/gas cars are probably not the right solution to our person transport needs. using energy to move a 4000 lb vehicle to transport one or two 200 lb humans is not energy-efficient... most of the energy is spent just moving the vehicle…

Seems like we need all the transportation improvements we can get and that a single mode of transportation would not suffice. Blind, old, drunk people, people with kids and or lots of groceries, people traveling long distances, and actual kids cannot simply take an e bike (I have two and love them btw). People going on ski trips or with significant luggage cannot hop on an e bike. So I for one welcome the reduction i…

A bicycle does all the things an electric capsule could do and much more. You can add weather protection to a bicycle if you need. You can add electrification. No need to reinvent the wheel.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#529
post #503

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I live in "the outside lands" [1] so I see them all the time. I think they do a lot of testing out here. I can only think of one time that a Cruise acted erratically and put me on guard. But honestly they drive so gradually and predictably that I am confident I could have got out of the way. I don't recall a single sketchy moment with a Waymo, but I'm a Googler so maybe we just chalk that up as incentivized blindspot…

I moved here from Europe and I am absolutely shocked at how reckless the drivers are. In the old country I think I saw a car run a red light once in 20 years of driving. Here is seems I see it every other day.

"Europe" is very vague when it comes to driving. Italy and Greece and all of eastern Europe have some of the worse (aggressive) driving on earth.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#530
post #115

"Skyrocket" is a word people use when they don't have the data to support their claim, but want to make it sound as extreme as possible. When I hear "skyrocket" I think "several orders of magnitude in a very short time". But the source of the quote with skyrocket, basically admits that they didn't have any quantitative evidence to support a massive change in incidents. Remember: reality is banal. Things are far bette…

Weird, the media used that specific term 24/7 during Covid.
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