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Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

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Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#141

Post by lotsofpulp »

Analemma_ wrote: post #48
godelski wrote: post #23

I've always wondered why big banks don't implement a lot more technologies, and I guess this gets to some of it. But it does seem like banks would have the incentives to kill services like Venmo and Stripe overnight. Like why are there not clear and straightforward banking APIs that let me create virtual cards and why doesn't my app let me just transfer money directly to my friend's bank account (I get global being a…

A lot of it is because they suck at technology, software, and marketing. You may recall that when Apple first announced Apple Pay, a bunch of banks were worried this would lock them out of the loop, and they announced, to no fanfare whatsoever, a competitor called Isis (lol, oops), quickly renamed to CurrentC. It went nowhere and was killed with nobody noticing a few years later. In the banks' defense, they have to w…

CurrentC was an effort by retail stores, not banks, to exert some control:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Merchant_Customer_Exchange

ClearXChange was started by the big banks, before CurrentC, and that turned into Zelle.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#142

Post by laurencerowe »

mschuster91 wrote: post #135
laurencerowe wrote: post #42

> The Single Europe Payment Area (SEPA) offers free, instant transactions between European banks. They’re pull based; a user communicates their banking information to a business, which debits the user’s account, rather than the business communicating their banking information to the user in order to send them money. I think this is something of a simplification since SEPA encompasses multiple types of payment. While…

> It's completely normal and safe in Europe to share your bank account number (IBAN) with others so that they can send you money through online banking. This is how I paid my rent (you can setup a recurring payment, kinda like bill pay but instant and without the risk of a physical check potentially being delayed in the mail); settled up with friends for shared expenses; and got paid for freelance consulting (I'd put…

> Just because everyone does it this doesn't mean it's safe to do. If some trolls manage to get hold of your IBAN and the account isn't protected from direct debit, you will get fucked by idiots ordering pizza and dildos.

I don't know anyone who this has ever happened to. Only vetted companies are allowed to perform Direct Debits, e.g. utilities who know your physical address. In the UK (still a member of SEPA even post Brexit) the Direct Debit Guarantee [1] makes it easy to reverse any errant Direct Debits through your bank.

The pizza or dildo company likely won't accept Direct Debits and will require a debit or credit card for the transaction instead.

[1] https://www.directdebit.co.uk/direct-debit-explained/direct-...

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#143

Post by lotsofpulp »

patmcc wrote: post #77
godelski wrote: post #23

I've always wondered why big banks don't implement a lot more technologies, and I guess this gets to some of it. But it does seem like banks would have the incentives to kill services like Venmo and Stripe overnight. Like why are there not clear and straightforward banking APIs that let me create virtual cards and why doesn't my app let me just transfer money directly to my friend's bank account (I get global being a…

There's a few big problems, at least on the "friend-to-friend" transfer. 1) You kinda need everybody on board. The biggest banks in the US have something like 5% market share, so it's not just 3 companies you need to get on the same page. This probably means it needs to be mandated from above. Any 1 bank could probably throw together an easy account-to-account transfer for other customers at the same bank without too…

The big US banks have implemented a friend to friend transfer system. It started between BoA/Chase/Wells Fargo as ClearXChange in 2011, now known as Zelle, and has covered more and more banks ever year since. At this point, the banks of 80% of US population are participants.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#144

Post by refurb »

cpursley wrote: post #64

Most Americans don’t realize how atrocious the US banking system is when it comes to technology and transfers. It’s embarrassingly bad. Shameful, even.

I don't know.

I was helping a Canadian friend with their bank account and TD's website looks like it's from the 90's.

And getting an SMS message when your credit card is charged? Yeah, it used to be a separate website (why?) but no longer offered.

It looked absolutely archaic compared to my US bank.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#145

Post by refurb »

AtNightWeCode wrote: post #52

Why Americans love credit cards so much is a mystery. In Europe debit cards have been the way to go for a long time. Most countries in Europe also have direct payments through mobile apps.

Why on earth would I use my money (and the risk of fraud) when I could use the banks money, interest free for a month?

And if I have a dispute with a business, I can have the credit card company reverse the charge for me? If it's debit, that money is gone.

I would never use debit if I could use a credit card. The US system is far superior for consumers.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#146

Post by dyates »

kasey_junk wrote: post #39
dyates wrote: post #22

As a South African, it's weird seeing this presented as a strange/futuristic idea. I pay most of my bills through bank transfers and it's the standard way for two people with bank accounts to send money to each other. As long as you know someone's bank and account number, you can send them money. All local online retailers, investment brokers, etc, support bank transfers, with some[1] even providing discounts for pay…

The comparison between SA bank transactions and UPI is pretty superficial. Precisely because the sender needs to know banking details about the receiver and to confirm the transaction on the receiver side you need access to the receivers bank data. UPI does not require either of those! It’s pretty great, and what modern bank transfers will look like. SA bank transfers, like non-US bank transfers, are newer, cheaper a…

Later on the article, when he talks about not needing access to the receiving account to confirm payments, I kinda got it. Just the initial framing of "what if we used bank transfers for payments" threw me for a loop.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#147

Post by rootusrootus »

cpursley wrote: post #66
zubairshaik wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Plenty of banks are competing with Venmo and Cashapp. They use Zelle[1], it's zero-fee and included in most bank apps already. But it's not intended for business payments like Stripe or PayPal, or Venmo for business. [1] https://www.zellepay.com/get-started

Both of those suck hugely vs Asian bank apps. You can just quickly and instantly send money by entering somebodies phone number. And it’s built into all the banking apps.

In the US I just iMessage money to people. Doesn’t work for Android, sure, but I know very few people still using Android and for them we just use Venmo.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#148

Post by rootusrootus »

kelnos wrote: post #67
anaganisk wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

India has done this for more than a decade at this point with IMPS and NEFT, and recently UPI. And I'm sure several other countries have them too, but for some reason the US chooses to remain backwards in this case.

It's funny how so many non-Americans call our payments system "backwards", but I generally prefer it to bank-transfer-based payments: 1. When I pay with a credit card, I haven't actually spent any money. That money is still in my bank account, and I have the chance to dispute the transaction if it's fraudulent, without putting my own money on the line first. I've heard a few horror stories where a merchant/service ha…

I feel similarly. In these threads there are plenty of people to tell me how the US system sucks but then their examples are of things I’m glad we don’t do here.

I’ve no problem moving money wherever I want, quickly, whether to a business or another person.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#149

Post by simfree »

toomuchtodo wrote: post #102
zubairshaik wrote: post #94

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Could you elaborate? I've used Zelle in the exact way you've mentioned previously (entered a phone number and an amount to send straight from my bank app) with no issues.

Zelle was a consortium of the biggest US banks. It works fine if you have a deposit account at one of those institutions, or if you have created a Zelle account that lets them get you funds through a shim if your bank isn't a member participant of Zelle. If you're at a brokerage that doesn't support it, a credit union, or a community bank, your experience is meh or non existent. FedNow is native real time messaging p…

Plenty of credit unions like BECU and First Tech fully support Zelle for sending and receiving payments, some credit unions even have higher daily and weekly Zelle limits than the traditional banks.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#150

Post by pepa65 »

raincom wrote: post #108
AtNightWeCode wrote: post #52

Why Americans love credit cards so much is a mystery. In Europe debit cards have been the way to go for a long time. Most countries in Europe also have direct payments through mobile apps.

Buying things that are not needed with the money one doesn't have = credit cards. That's the beauty of credit cards. It increases the spending in economy. With debit cards, one has to spend within their means.

And I think CC users (and more in general, the US populace) are more used to having debt. If you use a debit card, nothing needs to be paid back or remembered. With a credit card, you have to make sure that every month you clear your debt, otherwise you're starting to incur juicy fees -- this is what banks hope for! If you do clear your debts faithfully, you're having free very short terms loans every month..! But, being human, circumstances can happen where a monthly debt repayment does not happen, and then: kaching! But many people do not pay everything back every month, and this is a good money maker for banks.
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