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Keep work fresh by teaching your successors and investing a bit in long-shots

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Re: Keep work fresh by teaching your successors and investing a bit in long-shots

#31

Post by scarface_74 »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #25
scarface_74 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our guidelines (BigTech consulting department) on a high level are L4 - problem and solution is well defined L5 - problem is well defined, your responsibility to come up with a solution or at least be able to reach out to the right people for help. L6 - neither problem nor solution is well defined

And at any of those levels, you’re doing what the company is telling you (implementing actual specs vs creating specs).

At L6, the problem isn’t defined. They just know something is wrong.

Re: Keep work fresh by teaching your successors and investing a bit in long-shots

#32

Post by Arrath »

singleshot_ wrote: post #15
NoboruWataya wrote: post #9

Only somewhat related, but in my line of work (corporate law), where we work on a lot of different kinds of transactions, I find that my experience of working on a particular type of transaction can be roughly divided into five stages: - Stage 1: The first few times you work on a particular type of transaction, you are completely lost. You've never seen these documents before, it all feels alien and scary (bearing in…

Outsider perspective: you have nailed the training pathway, at least conceptually. Many level five practitioners are so far out of touch with level one that they have a tough time getting anyone else to level three. Keep up your good work!

> Many level five practitioners are so far out of touch with level one that they have a tough time getting anyone else to level three.

I've commonly run into this, myself. By the time someone gets to level four or five, they tend to associate more with people of their own level and it has been so long since they were themselves a junior that it becomes hard for them to relate. They expect competence and familiarity with the process from their colleagues, even if said colleague is a fresh new hire.

It can be pretty tough to overcome, from both sides.

Re: Keep work fresh by teaching your successors and investing a bit in long-shots

#33

Post by glouwbug »

angarg12 wrote: post #5

> If you’re doing what you’re told to do, they are paying you too much. I'm glad Kent Beck got that one out. I work for a Big Tech that pays (comparatively) well, and sometimes there is lot of ambiguity. Some new hires have a hard time adapting, and complain that they lack direction or have nothing to do. When these kind of companies pay you big bucks, part of the job is to be proactive at finding and solving the pro…

I disagree. I’d rather conserve my energy and wait for something

Re: Keep work fresh by teaching your successors and investing a bit in long-shots

#34

Post by dclowd9901 »

scarface_74 wrote: post #31
dclowd9901 wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

And at any of those levels, you’re doing what the company is telling you (implementing actual specs vs creating specs).

At L6, the problem isn’t defined. They just know something is wrong.

If the company is saying “your job is to find problems and solve them,” you’re still doing what the company is telling you what to do. I’m just saying that if a company wants me to do something, they better accurately define the position (and compensate appropriately).

Re: Keep work fresh by teaching your successors and investing a bit in long-shots

#35

Post by floydnoel »

glouwbug wrote: post #33
angarg12 wrote: post #5

> If you’re doing what you’re told to do, they are paying you too much. I'm glad Kent Beck got that one out. I work for a Big Tech that pays (comparatively) well, and sometimes there is lot of ambiguity. Some new hires have a hard time adapting, and complain that they lack direction or have nothing to do. When these kind of companies pay you big bucks, part of the job is to be proactive at finding and solving the pro…

I disagree. I’d rather conserve my energy and wait for something

"getting paid too much" is literally what corporations exist to do. why is it acceptable/moral for corporations to make unlimited profits, but bad for an individual human person to do so?

Re: Keep work fresh by teaching your successors and investing a bit in long-shots

#36

Post by 0xEFF »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #25
scarface_74 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our guidelines (BigTech consulting department) on a high level are L4 - problem and solution is well defined L5 - problem is well defined, your responsibility to come up with a solution or at least be able to reach out to the right people for help. L6 - neither problem nor solution is well defined

And at any of those levels, you’re doing what the company is telling you (implementing actual specs vs creating specs).

Not at L6. Scarface is right, most of the time the org just knows something is wrong and they don’t know what it is exactly or how to fix it. Sometimes they don’t even know something is very wrong, while working on a defining problem 1 the L6 also identifies related problem 2 the org thought was minor but is actually major.

None of this is specified, there are no specs to execute up front. Much of it is defining the spec yourself and collaborating with the rest of the org to find out if other people agree with the spec.

Re: Keep work fresh by teaching your successors and investing a bit in long-shots

#38

Post by yowlingcat »

floydnoel wrote: post #35
glouwbug wrote: post #33

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I disagree. I’d rather conserve my energy and wait for something

"getting paid too much" is literally what corporations exist to do. why is it acceptable/moral for corporations to make unlimited profits, but bad for an individual human person to do so?

To make an oversimplification, which one of those directly serves the fiscal interests of shareholders?

Re: Keep work fresh by teaching your successors and investing a bit in long-shots

#39

Post by yowlingcat »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #26
angarg12 wrote: post #5

> If you’re doing what you’re told to do, they are paying you too much. I'm glad Kent Beck got that one out. I work for a Big Tech that pays (comparatively) well, and sometimes there is lot of ambiguity. Some new hires have a hard time adapting, and complain that they lack direction or have nothing to do. When these kind of companies pay you big bucks, part of the job is to be proactive at finding and solving the pro…

Then what do we need managers for?

For the intrinsic gap between this lovely ideal and the common messiness of reality.

Re: Keep work fresh by teaching your successors and investing a bit in long-shots

#40

Post by dagmx »

dclowd9901 wrote: post #25
scarface_74 wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Our guidelines (BigTech consulting department) on a high level are L4 - problem and solution is well defined L5 - problem is well defined, your responsibility to come up with a solution or at least be able to reach out to the right people for help. L6 - neither problem nor solution is well defined

And at any of those levels, you’re doing what the company is telling you (implementing actual specs vs creating specs).

You’re missing that it’s:

- implementing the spec for an existing spec (L4)

- creating the spec for a prescribed product (L5)

- recognizing the need for the product in the first place and advocating to make it happen(L6)

Each level feeds the one below it.

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