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Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

nautil.us

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Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#121

Post by zakki »

DannyB2 wrote: post #4

If there were an industrial civilization here before us (modern humans) then it would be astonishing that in all of the fossils we have discovered, we've never yet discovered a single ancient nut, bolt, screwdriver, wrench, etc. Not one single wire or cast metal part. As per the article, that civilization would have to predate all of the vast history of evolution that we know of. Wouldn't some higher life forms from…

OOT but same vibes, this same reasoning is used by Creationist as well. If evolution happened, why don't we find more and more fossils of the intermediate form? Until now we only found final result of the evolution. And some hundred million years animals still exist, i.e. Coelacanth.

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#122

Post by IAmGraydon »

zakki wrote: post #121
DannyB2 wrote: post #4

If there were an industrial civilization here before us (modern humans) then it would be astonishing that in all of the fossils we have discovered, we've never yet discovered a single ancient nut, bolt, screwdriver, wrench, etc. Not one single wire or cast metal part. As per the article, that civilization would have to predate all of the vast history of evolution that we know of. Wouldn't some higher life forms from…

OOT but same vibes, this same reasoning is used by Creationist as well. If evolution happened, why don't we find more and more fossils of the intermediate form? Until now we only found final result of the evolution. And some hundred million years animals still exist, i.e. Coelacanth.

Not sure what you're talking about here. There have been many thousands of fossils found at various stages of evolution. Human evolution alone has a wealth of examples, and this is not new:

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_human_evolution_fossil...

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#123

Post by naasking »

melagonster wrote: post #76
naasking wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

We would naturally just assume that the same species appearing in different places just implied that those places were closer together in the past + migration. And so we have Pangaea before continental drift. If we lacked progenitors of those species in some places, we would just call it a temporary gap in the fossil record, of which we have many. We're pretty good at inventing explanations. Eventually these gaps mig…

but we have good prove of continental drift now. before we getting enough evidences, this theory just a joke.

You've missed the point, because these theories are basically compatible with the existing evidence, they just tell a different story.

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#124

Post by mikewarot »

We know that the Antikythera mechanism was made in a shop, on a small production line, it was likely one of a series of devices made. It is possible that the orthodox timeline of the rise of man needs quite a correction, given the events at the end of the Younger Dryas. Many of the megafauna were wiped out, and mankind almost went with them.

We need to survey the areas of the ocean less than about 200 foot deep (and the seabed below them) to see what mankind was doing before the sea level rose to the current levels.

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#125

Post by placesalt »

AnimalMuppet wrote: post #113
placesalt wrote: post #52

FTA: “The best [counter-argument] is probably the issue of deep mining,” Schmidt said. “We are mining very old deposits for metals and ore, and if these had been depleted by a prior civilization, it might have been noticed. These place limits on the scope of a prior civilization, but don’t eliminate the possibility.” This has interested me before, and I think it's good evidence to the contrary. I am not a geologist,…

But was the Canadian Shield exposed before the last glaciation? If it was buried under a large layer of other stuff before, the fact that it wasn't mined may not tell us much.

Again, not a geologist (or glaciologist), but glaciations happen frequently, in geological terms - every 40k? years or so. And, they don't dig very deep. Mines go >1km deep, so are below what I think any glaciation would have an effect on.

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#126

Post by coredog64 »

DannyB2 wrote: post #4

If there were an industrial civilization here before us (modern humans) then it would be astonishing that in all of the fossils we have discovered, we've never yet discovered a single ancient nut, bolt, screwdriver, wrench, etc. Not one single wire or cast metal part. As per the article, that civilization would have to predate all of the vast history of evolution that we know of. Wouldn't some higher life forms from…

There’s a Sci-Fi series that explores a technologically advanced ice age civilization that built with water/ice and hydraulics. The current protagonists couldn’t figure anything out because all that was left was tiny bits of corroded metal.

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#127

Post by yreg »

xwdv wrote: post #109

What seems chilling to me is that there is a sort of terrestrial Fermi Paradox where given the amount of time Earth has existed relative to how long humans have existed, you should expect there to have been sentient non-human civilizations existing prior to our emergence. If life and technology are so easy, living in a world where previous civilized species have once lived should be the norm. And yet, we have found n…

The scale is different, since obviously there have been far fewer dice rolls for spawning a civilization on Earth than galaxy-wide.

Anyway, I would bet that the 'terrestrial great filter' is evolutionary selection for large brains. Big brain costs a lot of energy and makes birth difficult to the point that humans have to be born prematurely and are as newborns utterly incompetent compared to other animals. And marginally better brain gives very little advantage to gene spreading.

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#130

Post by mrangle »

markus_zhang wrote: post #91
DannyB2 wrote: post #4

If there were an industrial civilization here before us (modern humans) then it would be astonishing that in all of the fossils we have discovered, we've never yet discovered a single ancient nut, bolt, screwdriver, wrench, etc. Not one single wire or cast metal part. As per the article, that civilization would have to predate all of the vast history of evolution that we know of. Wouldn't some higher life forms from…

The only possibility is...they sank into deep ocean. But then it's going to very unlikely that nothing surfaced for the last 20k or so years. So you have to throw a valcano or a large meteor on top of them, which would require even more proofs.

There are megaliths under water, off of the coast of Israel. Not natural rock formations that look like such, but confirmed and clear megaliths of the rock circle type that is all over Europe as well as in Israel and elsewhere in the Near East.
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