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Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

bitsaboutmoney.com

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Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#121

Post by supertrope »

AtNightWeCode wrote: post #107
kelnos wrote: post #100

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I really don't get why this is so hard for some people to understand. It's simple: when I pay with a credit card, the money is still in my possession. If the merchant screws up or there is fraud, I can dispute the charge and get resolution without any money leaving my bank account. On top of that, I get cash back and other benefits/rewards from using a credit card (like extended warranties and insurance on the things…

"I can dispute the charge and get resolution without any money leaving my bank account." Really? In what cases can an average credit card user challenge a payment that has not already occurred? If there is a fraud usually it is quick to get money back if debit cards were used.

In the United States checking/debit consumer protection is weaker. The legal minimum banks have to do depends on how quickly you notice a suspicious transaction. If you report it within two days your liability is capped at $50. If more than two days have passed your liability is $500. If more than 60 days have passed since the statement was sent fraud loss liability is unlimited.

When you go to file a fraud claim the bank must provide a provisional credit for the amount of the transaction but they may reverse this if they decide it was not fraud. It depends on what state you're in, if you used a branded (Visa/MC) debit card, the bank, the representative's interpretation of all the applicable rules, your prior chargeback history, etc.

https://www.consumerfinance.gov/rules-policy/regulations/100...

With credit cards the legal maximum is $50. And the fraudulent transactions are drawn on a line of credit (soft money) not the contents of your bank account (hard money). The United States has a powerful oligopoly of payment network operators who lobby to maintain high interchange revenue. This de facto shifts the cost of credit cards onto those who don't have them. Instead of annual membership fees for the actual users, merchants pay about 2% of card transaction volume instead of 0.3% in the EU.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#122

Post by supertrope »

kelnos wrote: post #100
AtNightWeCode wrote: post #52

Why Americans love credit cards so much is a mystery. In Europe debit cards have been the way to go for a long time. Most countries in Europe also have direct payments through mobile apps.

I really don't get why this is so hard for some people to understand. It's simple: when I pay with a credit card, the money is still in my possession. If the merchant screws up or there is fraud, I can dispute the charge and get resolution without any money leaving my bank account. On top of that, I get cash back and other benefits/rewards from using a credit card (like extended warranties and insurance on the things…

Because they live outside the United States. In some other countries all bank card transactions include the level of fraud protection that is only reserved for credit card users in the US.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#123

Post by biscuitech »

anothermoron wrote: post #49
hlieberman wrote: post #5

Notably, Canada has a system that works like UPI from India and is very widely used: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Interac_e-Transfer

Wow, as a Canadian I always thought that Interact was international.

Same, until I went to the US where nothing is standardized and somehow there's private companies worth billions that cover this precise use case. It's actually mind blowing.

The single banking system of Canada is a massive win in this regards

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#125

Post by kumarvvr »

UPI in India works, in principle, like this.

I use it to pay for anything from 10 cents to 1500 USD.

Its awesome, free and has enabled a banking revolution in India.

Small vendors now prefer UPI to cash, as small change is a hassle.

In India, even beggars are using it.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#127

Post by tdhoot »

biscuitech wrote: post #123
anothermoron wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wow, as a Canadian I always thought that Interact was international.

Same, until I went to the US where nothing is standardized and somehow there's private companies worth billions that cover this precise use case. It's actually mind blowing. The single banking system of Canada is a massive win in this regards

Interac is also a for-profit corporation. It's just owned by an association of banks. Zelle would be the equivalent in the US.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#128

Post by buzer »

There are lots of things that many countries do better than US in regards to banking.

One thing that I don't often see mentioned are invoices. In Finland you can get many of them delivered as standardized e-invoice to your bank. This then allows you to setup automatic payment for them on your side (pay on the due date, set maximum value that will be approved automatically if the amount is not static). For consumer protection if the due date falls on weekend/bank holiday, the due date in reality is the first normal day. It's also the day when you need to make the payment, it doesn't need to arrive on seller's account on that date (though these days it normally will).

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#129

Post by crooked-v »

kumarvvr wrote: post #125

UPI in India works, in principle, like this. I use it to pay for anything from 10 cents to 1500 USD. Its awesome, free and has enabled a banking revolution in India. Small vendors now prefer UPI to cash, as small change is a hassle. In India, even beggars are using it.

Also, for more context, many, many daily transactions in India are in amounts under 1 USD. For obvious reasons this makes eating credit card fees deeply impractical for many businesses and entrepreneurs.

Re: Bank transfers as a payment method (2021)

#130

Post by kumarvvr »

crooked-v wrote: post #129
kumarvvr wrote: post #125

UPI in India works, in principle, like this. I use it to pay for anything from 10 cents to 1500 USD. Its awesome, free and has enabled a banking revolution in India. Small vendors now prefer UPI to cash, as small change is a hassle. In India, even beggars are using it.

Also, for more context, many, many daily transactions in India are in amounts under 1 USD. For obvious reasons this makes eating credit card fees deeply impractical for many businesses and entrepreneurs.

Yup.

An average Chai (Tea) costs about 30 cents.

A Samosa costs about 15 cents

Most street foods cost under 50 cents.

Water bottles cost about 35 cents.

I strongly believe that every government should provide this sort of inter-bank and intra-bank transaction services as a public utility, for free.

The benefits of UPI cannot be overstated.

We also have UPI lite now. We can add about 20 USD to a UPI Lite account. Maximum transaction value is 2 USD. Daily transaction limit is 20 USD and the advantage of UPI Lite is that once you load your account with the money, the transaction completed without bank intervention, meaning lower chance of failure. Also, it does not need authentication (apart from your phone security).

I have been using this only recently and its an even more hassle free method of paying for almost 95% of my daily spends. Now I don't have to enter the UPI PIN to authorize a transaction.

Its a great way to give pocket money to kids.

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