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S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

sfchronicle.com

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Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#431

Post by aluminum96 »

peterisza wrote: post #38
crote wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Probably because "training" implies direct and constant supervision, which would almost completely avoid any chance of incidents because the human is in charge at all times. Deploying an unsupervised robot on the general public for training purposes is even worse than for testing purposes.

Why? If it is already safer than human drivers (as they claim), training and testing are both okay. Not even just okay, but a good thing!

> If it is already safer than human drivers (as they claim)

They are not safer. They are constantly behaving like this:

- https://twitter.com/desertflyer/status/1677464706251128832

- https://twitter.com/flrent/status/1677483882109882368

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#432

Post by michaelmrose »

nerdbert wrote: post #262
Aurornis wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A 60lb e-bike can also transport a 200 lb person whilst using far less resources (both to make the vehicle and to operate it) and space. E-bikes are great for the situations, climates, and people who can use them. E-bikes are not a substitute for the majority of people’s transportation needs. I think the young, healthy people who live in moderate climates with good weather, short commutes, and little need to haul a…

They work for the majority of people of all ages who live in cities where the infrastructure has been properly built to accommodate bikes. Most people rarely need to haul anything and can use carshare when they do. I've demoed a multistory house down to the bricks and re-built it from the outside in without a car. Hired someone to haul off a dumpster several times. For major materials deliveries, like beams or window…

Demonstrably a large segment can't and most who could don't want to thus busses and trains should be our primary focus.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#433

Post by aluminum96 »

dekhn wrote: post #115

"Skyrocket" is a word people use when they don't have the data to support their claim, but want to make it sound as extreme as possible. When I hear "skyrocket" I think "several orders of magnitude in a very short time". But the source of the quote with skyrocket, basically admits that they didn't have any quantitative evidence to support a massive change in incidents. Remember: reality is banal. Things are far bette…

Waymo and Cruise won't actually release comprehensive data. So anecdotes are all we have to go by... and they don't look particularly good. These are egregious driving mistakes that a human driver would almost never make.

- https://twitter.com/desertflyer/status/1677464706251128832

- https://twitter.com/flrent/status/1677483882109882368

Everyone needs to experience these things for themselves before unleashing them on the public. I want them to work, but in their current state, they are an absolute menace.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#434

Post by aluminum96 »

throwawhey4362 wrote: post #305
dekhn wrote: post #115

"Skyrocket" is a word people use when they don't have the data to support their claim, but want to make it sound as extreme as possible. When I hear "skyrocket" I think "several orders of magnitude in a very short time". But the source of the quote with skyrocket, basically admits that they didn't have any quantitative evidence to support a massive change in incidents. Remember: reality is banal. Things are far bette…

"Self driving cars were born in San Francisco. Companies like Cruise and Waymo are creating something that will literally save lives. But some San Francisco politicians hate technology so much, they’re literally willing to make up statistics lying to the public to justify banning them. It’s a lesson in killing the golden goose." - Garry Tan https://youtu.be/rjgUPUKD-Sc

Meanwhile, the self-driving cars:

- https://twitter.com/desertflyer/status/1677464706251128832

- https://twitter.com/flrent/status/1677483882109882368

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#435

Post by civilitty »

reaperducer wrote: post #161
tick_tock_tick wrote: post #85

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> whereas most drivers might wait for the pedestrian to reach the sidewalk before passing. You're joking right? No one wait for you to clear the street. Hell most driving start advancing when you're going to be clear by the time they make it to you. > What would happen if I "dropped" my wallet and turned around to pick it up? Same thing a human would; hit you or slam on the brakes. They'll just do it faster and harde…

> whereas most drivers might wait for the pedestrian to reach the sidewalk before passing. You're joking right? No one wait for you to clear the street. Hell most driving start advancing when you're going to be clear by the time they make it to you. > What would happen if I "dropped" my wallet and turned around to pick it up? Same thing a human would; hit you or slam on the brakes. They'll just do it faster and harde…

> The real world isn't like a Mad Max film.

I see you've never driven in Los Angeles...

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#436

Post by codeka »

kelnos wrote: post #242
dekhn wrote: post #115

"Skyrocket" is a word people use when they don't have the data to support their claim, but want to make it sound as extreme as possible. When I hear "skyrocket" I think "several orders of magnitude in a very short time". But the source of the quote with skyrocket, basically admits that they didn't have any quantitative evidence to support a massive change in incidents. Remember: reality is banal. Things are far bette…

The article includes a month-by-month graph of incident counts, broken down by company, that shows the "skyrocketing" behavior starting in March of this year. The article notes that the data is incomplete, but that only means that there are more incidents than the graph shows. And I'd also expect that part of the reason for the increase is that there are many more miles driven now by AVs than a year ago. But in a way…

> The article notes that the data is incomplete, but that only means that there are more incidents than the graph shows.

But what it doesn't note is where the data is incomplete.

If they started actively looking for incidents in March of this year, and the previous months are just whatever they happened to notice on social media, then it could be both true that "the data is incomplete" and that "there has not been a skyrocketing of incidents".

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#437

Post by aluminum96 »

I feel like I'm being gaslit by the AV companies, especially Cruise. If these cars are so safe, why do I constantly seem them doing sketchy stuff on public roads? Why are there so many videos on Twitter and Reddit of pedestrians literally dodging out of the way to avoid being run over? It doesn't pass the smell test.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#438

Post by tomjakubowski »

jtriangle wrote: post #237
cashsterling wrote: post #206

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't know why the other reply to this post got downvoted to hell. THe person has a point. Fully autonomous cars are cool... don't get me wrong. But electric cars and autonomous electric/gas cars are probably not the right solution to our person transport needs. using energy to move a 4000 lb vehicle to transport one or two 200 lb humans is not energy-efficient... most of the energy is spent just moving the vehicle…

Cool, you have an affordable, tenuously waterproofed, chinese mass produced e-bike, it's your only available mode of transportation, you need to go into the office for a meeting, and it's raining. Welcome to hell. Also, not sure if you've used public transportation recently, but man, it SUCKS. Far less time efficient than a car, often crowded during the times you want to use it, and ZERO enforcement of proper etiquet…

Bicycle commuting in the rain would be no big deal except for all the 4000lb vehicles you have to share the road with.

You can put rain gear on. Braking and steering are hardly affected. You can't go fast enough for hydroplaning to happen.

Your visibility is impaired, but visibility on a bike saddle is already infinitely less obstructed compared to a driver's seat. You don't even need windshield wipers!

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#439

Post by ceejayoz »

aluminum96 wrote: post #437

I feel like I'm being gaslit by the AV companies, especially Cruise. If these cars are so safe, why do I constantly seem them doing sketchy stuff on public roads? Why are there so many videos on Twitter and Reddit of pedestrians literally dodging out of the way to avoid being run over? It doesn't pass the smell test.

> Why are there so many videos on Twitter and Reddit of pedestrians literally dodging out of the way to avoid being run over?

Part of the answer here is probably "because no one bothers to film human drivers doing this, as it's commonplace".

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#440

Post by aluminum96 »

ceejayoz wrote: post #439
aluminum96 wrote: post #437

I feel like I'm being gaslit by the AV companies, especially Cruise. If these cars are so safe, why do I constantly seem them doing sketchy stuff on public roads? Why are there so many videos on Twitter and Reddit of pedestrians literally dodging out of the way to avoid being run over? It doesn't pass the smell test.

> Why are there so many videos on Twitter and Reddit of pedestrians literally dodging out of the way to avoid being run over? Part of the answer here is probably "because no one bothers to film human drivers doing this, as it's commonplace".

I'm sure there is a selection bias. But if AVs are really an improvement, Cruise should prove it to the CPUC with actual data. Otherwise, I'll continue to believe outrageous videos [like this](https://twitter.com/flrent/status/1677483882109882368) over Cruise's claims.
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