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WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

developer.wordpress.org

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Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#131

Post by [deleted] »

andrewaylett wrote: post #97
lolinder wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I agree that the distinction you're drawing is valuable, but it's not a distinction between "code" and "not code": both aspects are defined with a language that the computer parses, interprets, and executes on. One happens to be a declarative language that deals with the what and why , and the other an imperative one that deals with the how . > Trying to shoehorn peoples attitudes into discriminatory experience level…

It's not "code" and "not code", it's "software engineering", "programming", and "using a computer". So many more people program computers than think they're programming. Anything that allows a computer to reproduce what would otherwise be a manual set of steps is programming. Made a bookmark in your browser? That's programming. Excel is definitely programming. And have you ever tried styling a web page using only the…

[deleted]

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#132

Post by marc_io »

photomatt wrote: post #128
imilk wrote: post #40

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Wordpress is still great for downloading a theme from Themeforest to get brochure style sites (restaurant, simple small business, etc) up and running pretty fast. It is not great (possibly horrendous) for revisiting a few years later when all the plugins/theme/core needs to be updated and a bunch of different people have added custom JS/CSS all over in random places. It's hard to reconcile "pro web designer" with no-…

I hope we can make the .org Theme directory so good and Gutenberg + Patterns so usable you don't need to go to Themeforest anymore.

Need to get the intrinsic design approach right first, that's lot to cover.

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#134

Post by dboreham »

gamblor956 wrote: post #39

WordPress exposes a huge divide in the HN crowd: - one group recognizes WordPress for what it is: a value-multiplier used by non-coders for websites so they don't have to deal with the coding and can focus on their core competencies - the other group hates WordPress because of the ugly codebase, and meanders off to work on their own perfectly formatted, ultra-scalable code that has no little to no value because it's…

I'm a serious software engineer (I think...) but I use WP for my corporate web sites.

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#135

Post by dboreham »

Reptur wrote: post #30

Its cool and I get it, but how is this useful other than good marketing? If an app's code is run on a device, any rooted device could just modify its memory and do whatever it wants. Just ask a game developer about the infinite anti-cheating war that they deal with.

Almost like a real computer.

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#136

Post by DaiPlusPlus »

sangnoir wrote: post #106
DaiPlusPlus wrote: post #88

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> 1,135,948k of memory That's 1.1GB. That's horrifying because, theoretically, it should be a tiny, tiny fraction of that: on bare-metal we can run PHP + MySQL (let alone SQLite) + Apache within a few dozen MB of RAM. (Historical personal anecdote: my first-ever dev-server machine I built before high-school ran Windows Server 2003, IIS, SQL Server, and Adobe Photoshop 7.0 (in a Terminal Services session) concurrently…

> That's horrifying because, theoretically, it should be a tiny, tiny fraction of that: on bare-metal we can run PHP + MySQL (let alone SQLite) + Apache within a few dozen MB of RAM Only being half-facetious here: if the old stack was so great, why aren't you still using it? I know someone who swore by ColdFusion, but won't use BlueDragon or Lucee because the world has moved on from CFML; templated HTML-generation on…

> if the old stack was so great, why aren't you still using it?

I am, granted, current-versions-thereof - though with more recent OS versions the RAM requirements just go up, because modern OSes (especially Windows Server) are built to more aggressively cache things in RAM to avoid paging to disk.

I work primarily in .NET and that is also RAM-hungry: it allocates a huge chunk of RAM for each CPU core for per-thread GC purposes - which does drastically improve GC perf in production - and if prod has only 1-4 VM cores assigned this isn't a problem - but on my dev box with its 24-core Xeon CPU it means even a Hello World program will consume probably 500MB+ of RAM - ugh. To-date, I haven't found a way to control or limit this.

But my post wasn't me complaining about my current situation - more about my despair at the lack of belt-tightening from certain platform vendors like Chromium - or in this case, why compiling to WASM instead of native results in this level of RAM usage.

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#137

Post by RadixDLT »

WhackyIdeas wrote: post #93
Saris wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always found WordPress performance doesn't change much on lower vs higher end hardware. It seems to be limited by itself.

Absolutely. The other day, I took my slow Wordpress server hosted at Vultr on bare metal (£200/pm) and put it on a server at £500 per month and even after doing all the performance tuning I could with MySQL and PHP I couldn’t notice a difference in speed when I was on the back-end where Cloudflare wasn’t caching it. I then tested on a lower performance server which costs £80 per month at Vultr and again couldn’t dete…

you have to make sure you are on the right server, (apache vS enginx)

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#138

Post by RadixDLT »

judah wrote: post #100
Saris wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always found WordPress performance doesn't change much on lower vs higher end hardware. It seems to be limited by itself.

What's the answer to making WordPress sites faster? I too have tried better hardware, CDNs, plugins like WP Super Cache, and others means of optimizing. Very little impact. Is the problem PHP? I'm thinking of trying one of those plugins that convert the WordPress site to static web site. I'd imagine that'd have a big impact, at least for sites that don't need e.g. login, shopping carts, etc.

you also need a small footprint theme like (Neve), and customizing Apache with right modules to compress files, or with less customization ( nginx) might be faster

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#139

Post by khromov »

judah wrote: post #100
Saris wrote: post #84

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I've always found WordPress performance doesn't change much on lower vs higher end hardware. It seems to be limited by itself.

What's the answer to making WordPress sites faster? I too have tried better hardware, CDNs, plugins like WP Super Cache, and others means of optimizing. Very little impact. Is the problem PHP? I'm thinking of trying one of those plugins that convert the WordPress site to static web site. I'd imagine that'd have a big impact, at least for sites that don't need e.g. login, shopping carts, etc.

WordPress is very fast out of the box considering all its capabilities, it's not hard to get in the range of 100ms TTFB out of the box on dirt cheap VPS servers, which is pretty good in my book. The problem is that people add very heavy themes and plugins that push them well above acceptable TTFB numbers.

Full Site Editing with the new Gutenberg editor have amended a lot of that, it's very performant out of the box. Just as an example, I have a site averaging about 200ms for uncached requests, it has an FSE theme and 20 installed plugins, including heavy ones like ACF.

This is all out of the box without cache, but by adding a simple static page cache (either a plugin or something like Fastly, Varnish etc.) you can make it so that the p95 latency drops by 80-90% because most people will see cached page views any way.

Re: WordPress Playground: A WordPress that runs entirely in the browser

#140

Post by RadixDLT »

photomatt wrote: post #127
fredley wrote: post #3

WordPress was where I got my start, a while ago now. From poking around with PHP files, to building my own things, to Django, and on. It would have been inconceivable back then (mid noughties) that the whole thing could be done client side. The Web has come on a long way. These days I tend to hate WordPress with a passion. Occasionally I will be asked to peek at some technical problem with a WordPress installation an…

We do need to figure out as a community how to deal with that upsell / aggressive plugin problem. I hope we can come up with some norms and standards for what's allowed in our plugin directory that is most customer-centric.

yep, only allow high quality plugins that adhere to coding standards

also, WordPress should be behind a framework( symfony, laravel)

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