S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’ • Hacker News Board

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#301

Post by sitkack » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 10:58 PM UTC

seanmcdirmid wrote: post #258

Aurornis wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A 60lb e-bike can also transport a 200 lb person whilst using far less resources (both to make the vehicle and to operate it) and space. E-bikes are great for the situations, climates, and people who can use them. E-bikes are not a substitute for the majority of people’s transportation needs. I think the young, healthy people who live in moderate climates with good weather, short commutes, and little need to haul a…

> and little need to haul anything often forget The dutch created the cargo bike for this very reason. But they have the climate and biking infrastructure to support that kind of lifestyle. We (Americans) don't, I wish we did.

And that is a new thing, they paved the canals are going down the route America did and reversed it.

America got conned into a car, suburbia, new construction scam that benefited a small number of rich people.

A bike lane is a street you don’t let cars drive on.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#302

Post by splonk » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 10:58 PM UTC

jmoss20 wrote: post #103

paxys wrote: post #92

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> For example, I could start coning cruise cars, and cause these numbers to skyrocket And why would that not be a valid data point? Cars driving on public roads need to successfully handle all regular day-to-day situations, not just the happy path. It seems like almost every day I run into some Cruise or Waymo (mostly Cruise) vehicle stuck in the middle of the street blocking traffic, and that should not be excused a…

> It seems like almost every day I run into some Cruise or Waymo (mostly Cruise) vehicle stuck in the middle of the street blocking traffic ...really? I've seen this maybe once or twice, total. Is there really some part of town where this is a daily occurrence?

I wouldn't call it daily from my observations, but it's common enough in the Mission that it's not a surprise (I'm probably within a mile of the garages that Cruise and Waymo use).

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#303

Post by minwcnt5 » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 10:59 PM UTC

reaperducer wrote: post #178

waldohatesyou wrote: post #93

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t the gain that those folks can find another job that’s more useful?

Isn’t the gain that those folks can find another job that’s more useful? What makes you think that if finding another job that they are capable of doing was so easy they wouldn't have already done so? Because they were waiting for some tech billionaire to throw them on the unemployment line?

No, they wouldn't have already done so, because their current job still exists and it's easier to maintain the status quo.

Major structural employment changes don't happen overnight. This will take decades. AVs will decrease the demand for Uber drivers, but it doesn't mean they will all be out of a job overnight, just that incentives will slowly push workers towards other jobs.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#304

Post by dekhn » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 10:59 PM UTC

yafbum wrote: post #201

dekhn wrote: post #168

Earlier quoted context omitted.

informal perceptions are about the last thing you want when making decisions about large-scale technology roll-outs. Instead, people should be informed with the highest quality data, and need to be reminded that informal perceptions are often biased and skewed.

At the end of the day, people always make decisions based on emotion, because every decision involves assessing risk, including the risk of things that were not thought of testing. Data only tells you about the past while decisions only affect your future.

There's a difference between making a decision based on emotion, and making a decision based on wisdom and data. Frequently, when I have a hard decision to make, I wait a while until I'm feeling "less emotional", so that my normal knee-jerk reactions don't dominate.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#305

Post by throwawhey4362 » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 10:59 PM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #115

"Skyrocket" is a word people use when they don't have the data to support their claim, but want to make it sound as extreme as possible. When I hear "skyrocket" I think "several orders of magnitude in a very short time". But the source of the quote with skyrocket, basically admits that they didn't have any quantitative evidence to support a massive change in incidents. Remember: reality is banal. Things are far bette…

"Self driving cars were born in San Francisco. Companies like Cruise and Waymo are creating something that will literally save lives. But some San Francisco politicians hate technology so much, they’re literally willing to make up statistics lying to the public to justify banning them. It’s a lesson in killing the golden goose." - Garry Tan https://youtu.be/rjgUPUKD-Sc

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#306

Post by fragmede » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 10:59 PM UTC

I will provide a dissenting voice. I was riding a Cruise with a friend the other night, leaving a bar - they only serve a nighttime crowd right now. suddenly a drunk hippie on Haight street started banging on the windows. Rather than get on our way and get us out of there like a Homan driver would, the cruise stopped, powered down - as in unlocked the doors, and called customer service. I shudder to think what would have happened if the hippie hadn't been drunk/inconsequentially high and was on PCP or something. This was a real thing that happened. I reported it to customer support. I can only imagine the conversations internally of this incident. (maybe I should get a job as an sre there.)

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#307

Post by birken » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 11:00 PM UTC

nerdbert wrote: post #262

Aurornis wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A 60lb e-bike can also transport a 200 lb person whilst using far less resources (both to make the vehicle and to operate it) and space. E-bikes are great for the situations, climates, and people who can use them. E-bikes are not a substitute for the majority of people’s transportation needs. I think the young, healthy people who live in moderate climates with good weather, short commutes, and little need to haul a…

They work for the majority of people of all ages who live in cities where the infrastructure has been properly built to accommodate bikes. Most people rarely need to haul anything and can use carshare when they do. I've demoed a multistory house down to the bricks and re-built it from the outside in without a car. Hired someone to haul off a dumpster several times. For major materials deliveries, like beams or window…

Self driving electric cars are much better than car shares as they'll have significantly higher usage rates and eliminate much of the need for parking spots in dense downtown areas.

If you believe car shares are part of an efficient transportation future then self-driving cars are part of it!

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#308

Post by cmdli » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 11:01 PM UTC

nerdbert wrote: post #262

Aurornis wrote: post #234

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> A 60lb e-bike can also transport a 200 lb person whilst using far less resources (both to make the vehicle and to operate it) and space. E-bikes are great for the situations, climates, and people who can use them. E-bikes are not a substitute for the majority of people’s transportation needs. I think the young, healthy people who live in moderate climates with good weather, short commutes, and little need to haul a…

They work for the majority of people of all ages who live in cities where the infrastructure has been properly built to accommodate bikes. Most people rarely need to haul anything and can use carshare when they do. I've demoed a multistory house down to the bricks and re-built it from the outside in without a car. Hired someone to haul off a dumpster several times. For major materials deliveries, like beams or window…

Considering that the vast majority of US cities were built with cars in mind, we probably aren’t in a position to use bikes anytime soon. And this isn’t just about the availability of bike lanes, but also things like the density of housing, the location of shopping, the infrastructure for big box stores, etc. These things will take decades to change, at best, so improving cars in the meantime is worthwhile.

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#309

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 11:01 PM UTC

dekhn wrote: post #205

Vecr wrote: post #191

Earlier quoted context omitted.

That's an ambush, are the self defense laws there that bad?

Uhhh... if you're surrounding by multiple layers of cyclists and try to drive your way out hitting a few cyclists, the cyclists are going to swarm your car and kill you. To be fair, I think this only happened a few times and it was caused by a small number of bad players, while the majority of Critical Mass participants were ethically (if somewhat inconveniently) demonstrating their collective power.

[deleted]

Re: S.F. says incidents by Cruise, Waymo driverless taxis are ‘skyrocketing.’

#310

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 11:02 PM UTC

__loam wrote: post #130

satisfice wrote: post #61

These companies cannot be trusted to be honest about incidents or near incidents. They like to crow about safety, but the safety they want credit for is entirely hypothetical. There is no good reason to believe that autonomous vehicles are actually safer. They haven’t yet been tested enough, and the testing that has been done cannot be generalized to new situations. I believe they would be safer if all roads were ful…

They are already required to report every accident to a public agency in California. And the safety is not hypothetical. Waymo is driving millions of miles a month in places like Phoenix. They have a ton of data to support the fact that their cars are significantly safer than human drivers.

[deleted]