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Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

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Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#31

Post by kubectl_h »

jamesgreenleaf wrote: post #15

I'm convinced that using the "mac layout" for your main modifier key (Cmd) is a huge improvement when it comes to comfort and reducing strain. If you're on another OS, you should remap Control to your Alt key. I've done this on my Windows & Linux machines, and it takes a few days to get used to, but it's just night and day. Pinky weak, thumb strong.

I agree as well. On top of that I won't use a keyboard where the interior side of each command key is not flush with the interior side of the key above it (x or ,). Even that extra little bit of travel for my thumbs to press the alt key bothers me.

I don't really care for typing on my Macbook but I do think Magic Keyboard with numeric keys is probably as good as it gets for me. I don't really miss mechanical keyboards at all.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#32

Post by sokoloff »

I worked as a typist for rms for a few sessions while I was in college. IIRC, it was $10/hr and I’d do 3 hour stints.

He’d sit behind/beside and dictate keystrokes. I was a novice emacs user (especially by comparison) and he’d get frustrated when he could tell I was trying to interpret the keystrokes (instead of just typing them).

I didn’t last long as it was stressful work; when I let him know I was quitting, he was gracious, observed that I’d finally become useful and “lasted longer than most”.

His condition made a strong impression on me and got my cheapskate nature to be willing to spend money on Kinesis ergo keyboards later in my career when I started having minor pain.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#33

Post by blt »

aodonnell2536 wrote: post #12
honkycat wrote: post #5

i killed my RSI that I had for YEARS by seriously over-hauling my workspace. I also went to occupational therapists who helped me figure out what I was doing wrong and how to fix it. I use a moonlander split keyboard so my shoulders are properly spread out instead of hunched together, and my wrists and arms can fall at a more reasonable angle. I use a "tall" ergo mouse. This was a huge upgrade from my small mouse and…

I’ve been strongly considering a split keyboard recently, and have been looking at (and loving the ergonomics of) the Moonlander, but struggle to reason paying $365 when every keyboard I’ve bought in the past has been <$80. Do you by chance know of any cheaper alternatives with similar ergonomics?

I bought ergodox EZ and haven't had a bad RSI flare-up since. It's worth the money if you can afford. The switches are individually replaceable. Should last decades.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#34

Post by nvarsj »

jamesgreenleaf wrote: post #15

I'm convinced that using the "mac layout" for your main modifier key (Cmd) is a huge improvement when it comes to comfort and reducing strain. If you're on another OS, you should remap Control to your Alt key. I've done this on my Windows & Linux machines, and it takes a few days to get used to, but it's just night and day. Pinky weak, thumb strong.

Ctrl isn't bad at all if you karate chop it with your palm. Doesn't work on a laptop keyboard though.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#35

Post by Given_47 »

Optimal_Persona wrote: post #19

I first came across Xah Lee's site years ago while trying to mitigate some mild RSI. At that time I saw he was an RSI sufferer and hardcore Emacs user. Over the years when I see an article by devs with chronic RSI, all I will say is that they are rarely written by vim users. I know key mappings can be changed but I don't think the default chording key combos of Emacs are ergonomic. I believe Richard Stallman is anoth…

I stumbled across his site (and this post) two days ago lol! I think I saw someone had mentioned/linked the palm control method which I found pretty ingenious.

Mice are definitely terrible and one day I’ll get around to adding full mouse emulation to my QMK keyboard. And even tho Apple trackpad is nice I find it difficult to use cuz my mouse has like twelve buttons all programmed to different app specific functions so it’s actually rather ergonomic; the only worrying part is moving the hand off the keyboard

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#36

Post by susam »

_dain_ wrote: post #25
susam wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The article at https://www.emacswiki.org/emacs/MovingTheCtrlKey says that some users get RSI by remapping 'ctrl' to 'caps lock'. Again, it is all anecdotal. There is no evidence or reference presented there. Only a vague claim at the top of the article. But I won't be surprised if it indeed turns out to be true. When 'ctrl' is mapped to 'caps lock', we use only the left hand to to type 'ctrl'. This leads to bad typin…

>This leads to bad typing practices like contorting your left hand to type both 'ctrl' (now mapped to 'caps lock') and 'x' with the same hand. wait, how else are you meant to type CTRL-X?

Right little finger on 'ctrl'. Left little finger on 'x'.

With proper touch-typing, that's how we type shift+x too, i.e., right little finger on 'shift' and left little finger on 'x'.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#37

Post by dundarious »

jimbob45 wrote: post #3

Ergonomic mice are what’s useless. They give your wrist the tilt it (may) need but the real panacea is to keep your wrist/forearm off the table by resting your elbow on your armrest and having your desk height match your armrest height.

My personal experience is different. I developed strain from a bog standard, low profile office mouse, by turning my right (mouse) hand to be relatively flat, with the strain being rotating the thumb side down. Using a Kinesis DXT2 mouse resolved it relatively quickly. It's vertical, looks a bit like a sail, and after a brief period getting used to it, I found it very easy and very accurate to use, a bit like holding a pen. I should note that it was odd enough that I really had to have a spare normal mouse for when anyone else wanted to use my computer (during code reviews, etc.), that was quite funny.

I haven't actually even used it in years (lost during an office move), but now I instinctively use a regular mouse with my hand at least at a 45 degree angle to the table, instead of parallel with it, and I still have no strain. I think I'd have trouble doing that with a bog standard low profile office mouse, but my old Logitech mouse is chunky enough that it works for me without thinking about it.

My elbow was always on the armrest, but it was only after using a vertical mouse that I trained myself to not strain myself.

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#38

Post by _dain_ »

susam wrote: post #36
_dain_ wrote: post #25

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>This leads to bad typing practices like contorting your left hand to type both 'ctrl' (now mapped to 'caps lock') and 'x' with the same hand. wait, how else are you meant to type CTRL-X?

Right little finger on 'ctrl'. Left little finger on 'x'. With proper touch-typing, that's how we type shift+x too, i.e., right little finger on 'shift' and left little finger on 'x'.

people actually use right-ctrl and right-shift? i forgot those keys even existed.

but why not just use the left-ctrl? it's as easy as can be: pinky on ctrl, index finger on x, they're the perfect distance apart, you press them in one fluid movement.

maybe I find this easier because I'm left handed?

Re: Famous Programers with Repetitive Strain Injury (2022)

#40

Post by [deleted] »

Optimal_Persona wrote: post #19

I first came across Xah Lee's site years ago while trying to mitigate some mild RSI. At that time I saw he was an RSI sufferer and hardcore Emacs user. Over the years when I see an article by devs with chronic RSI, all I will say is that they are rarely written by vim users. I know key mappings can be changed but I don't think the default chording key combos of Emacs are ergonomic. I believe Richard Stallman is anoth…

[deleted]
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