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Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

nautil.us

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Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#11

Post by jboogey »

DannyB2 wrote: post #4

If there were an industrial civilization here before us (modern humans) then it would be astonishing that in all of the fossils we have discovered, we've never yet discovered a single ancient nut, bolt, screwdriver, wrench, etc. Not one single wire or cast metal part. As per the article, that civilization would have to predate all of the vast history of evolution that we know of. Wouldn't some higher life forms from…

A great Atlantic article explaining how current human civilzation might appear in a fossil record in the distant future https://www.theatlantic.com/science/archive/2019/08/arroganc...

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#12

Post by leafmeal »

Obviously this doesn't apply when speaking on the scale of millions of years, but I remember reading that there may not be enough easily accessible energy sources (ie fossil fuels) left to jump start another industrial civilization if our current one where to collapse.

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#14

Post by tarikjn »

DannyB2 wrote: post #4

If there were an industrial civilization here before us (modern humans) then it would be astonishing that in all of the fossils we have discovered, we've never yet discovered a single ancient nut, bolt, screwdriver, wrench, etc. Not one single wire or cast metal part. As per the article, that civilization would have to predate all of the vast history of evolution that we know of. Wouldn't some higher life forms from…

Not pre-human but challenging the understood modern human timeline of industrialisation — We have not found the tools, but we may have found the products; in the form of stone-based vases that archeologists attribute to the Early Egyptian Period but are believed to be from much earlier, and would have required tools that have not been discovered yet. The channel UnchartedX make a compelling argument about this hypothesis: https://youtu.be/ixTTvRGk0HQ

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#16

Post by barelysapient »

DannyB2 wrote: post #4

If there were an industrial civilization here before us (modern humans) then it would be astonishing that in all of the fossils we have discovered, we've never yet discovered a single ancient nut, bolt, screwdriver, wrench, etc. Not one single wire or cast metal part. As per the article, that civilization would have to predate all of the vast history of evolution that we know of. Wouldn't some higher life forms from…

I like to wonder what undiscovered fossils exist below the oceans that cover 70 percent of our planet.

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#17

Post by blululu »

The arguments here feels like they would apply to pre-industrial civilization but I would suspect that the artifacts of modern civilization are pretty glaring in the fossil record. The layer of lead on the surface is not going to go away anytime soon. The same applies to a variety of other elements that we have blown into the atmosphere - to say nothing of the crazy amount of chicken bones and concentrations of strange metals that we have produced.

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#18

Post by BuyMyBitcoins »

DannyB2 wrote: post #4

If there were an industrial civilization here before us (modern humans) then it would be astonishing that in all of the fossils we have discovered, we've never yet discovered a single ancient nut, bolt, screwdriver, wrench, etc. Not one single wire or cast metal part. As per the article, that civilization would have to predate all of the vast history of evolution that we know of. Wouldn't some higher life forms from…

I figure that any industrialized civilization would have left indirect evidence of itself by mucking up the fossil record with introduced species. We intentionally and unintentionally introduce plants and animals far outside their natural range.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Columbian_exchange

You would see some species inexplicably take on a worldwide distribution, or see species suddenly turn up on far away landmasses with no good explanation.

https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chorioactis

The link above is fascinating, but I do not think it is evidence of any past civilization. This probably happened naturally, but it does seem exceedingly rare. If there were a past industrial civilization there would probably be tens of thousands of examples like this one.

Re: Could an industrial civilization have predated humans on Earth?

#19

Post by Mountain_Skies »

SubiculumCode wrote: post #7
DannyB2 wrote: post #4

If there were an industrial civilization here before us (modern humans) then it would be astonishing that in all of the fossils we have discovered, we've never yet discovered a single ancient nut, bolt, screwdriver, wrench, etc. Not one single wire or cast metal part. As per the article, that civilization would have to predate all of the vast history of evolution that we know of. Wouldn't some higher life forms from…

The article indicated that surface turnover could have removed that evidence.

If that were the case, perhaps someday we will find evidence on the Moon or elsewhere in the Solar System that an earlier civilization achieved space flight before they were erased from Earth and unable to establish a permanent foothold elsewhere in our corner of the cosmos. The Moon and other celestial bodies in the Solar System of course have their own processes that erase the surface over time, but at least with the Moon, it does appear to be a far slower process.
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