FDA says aspartame is safe, disagreeing with WHO finding • Hacker News Board

Re: FDA says aspartame is safe, disagreeing with WHO finding

#51

Post by legitster » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 7:25 PM UTC

wredue wrote: post #34

legitster wrote: post #14

> Schubauer-Berigan acknowledged during a press conference with journalists Wednesday that the studies could contain flaws that skewed the results. She said the classification should be viewed as a call to conduct more research into whether aspartame can cause cancer in humans. > “Aspartame is one of the most studied food additives in the human food supply. FDA scientists do not have safety concerns when aspartame is…

The WHO does have a tendency to lean overly cautious. But you have to remember that the FDA is not working for YOUR best interest either. When the FDA says that something is “safe”, what it actually means is “the economic impacts of this are probably negligible in a lifetime”. So if aspartame causes cancer after your career is over, then it’s safe according to the FDA. The WHO isn’t under the same lobbying or economi…

I mean, it's hard to even know where to grapple with such a polemic statement. But you mean to say that the FDA's mission is to ignore retirees? Retirees being the the most powerful voting block in the country, the top source of campaign contributions, and top recipient of government funds.

Even if I was conspiratorial minded, I would assume the conspiracy works the other way.

Re: FDA says aspartame is safe, disagreeing with WHO finding

#52

Post by freedomben » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 7:29 PM UTC

aidenn0 wrote: post #17

mytailorisrich wrote: post #3

My understanding is that the WHO has maintained its recommended max. daily intake, which is the equivalent of about 10 cans of soft drinks a day... make of that what you will.

7-11 at one point had a 128oz fountain drink which is more than 10 cans of soda (i.e. 120 fl oz).

Yep that's true. In the summer of '04 I worked as a Napa delivery driver, driving parts orders all over the city to mechanic shops as needed. 7-11 had a location right across the street from us, so it was common that we would make a "sev" run in the morning to get everybody caffeinated. The manager there was a badass classic parts guy that was a great guy and who did his job really well, but drank copious amounts of caffeine.

7-11 started selling an enormous 128 oz mug that we would fill with soda in the morning and drink throughout the day. That was an insane amount of soda. But my boss at the time would have me take his 128 oz mug and fill it with several pots of coffee. The clerk at sev would joke about how she had to make a couple of extra pots around 8 am because of my boss, and how "I know it's still for him even if he's too chicken to come in himself."

To this day I've never known anybody that drank as much caffeine as he did. I'm guessing the nicotine from the chain smoking helped take some of the edge off :-D

Those were different times.

Re: FDA says aspartame is safe, disagreeing with WHO finding

#53

Post by atlex2 » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 7:30 PM UTC

Diet soda and sweeteners behind them are still a scam even if they don’t “cause cancer.” They’re a scam because they still cause insulin response. Pancreas cranks out insulin after tasting the soda, and there no blood sugar to react with. My uncle drank tons of Diet Coke and got pancreatic cancer. Doesn’t mean diet soda caused his pancreatic cancer, but he definitely didn’t loose weight by drinking the stuff.

Re: FDA says aspartame is safe, disagreeing with WHO finding

#54

Post by dangus » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 7:31 PM UTC

wredue wrote: post #34

legitster wrote: post #14

> Schubauer-Berigan acknowledged during a press conference with journalists Wednesday that the studies could contain flaws that skewed the results. She said the classification should be viewed as a call to conduct more research into whether aspartame can cause cancer in humans. > “Aspartame is one of the most studied food additives in the human food supply. FDA scientists do not have safety concerns when aspartame is…

The WHO does have a tendency to lean overly cautious. But you have to remember that the FDA is not working for YOUR best interest either. When the FDA says that something is “safe”, what it actually means is “the economic impacts of this are probably negligible in a lifetime”. So if aspartame causes cancer after your career is over, then it’s safe according to the FDA. The WHO isn’t under the same lobbying or economi…

Not that I don’t disagree with the idea of being skeptical about agency motivations and transparency, but this seems like a literal conspiracy theory.

There are all kinds of things that cause or are linked cancer that pretty much have to be legal. Can the government entirely ban motor vehicles or delivery trucks? Would you have the government ban ice cream because obesity causes cancer?

Government agencies like the FDA have to deal with the complexities of the real world. Risk of death is involved with daily life, so they are often tasked with the analysis of risk.

The layperson doesn’t really like to hear that they’re just a number in a statistics database but it’s true.

40% of people get cancer in their lifetime. So if you have a chemical that increases cancer risk by an insignificant enough percentage, there’s a pretty understandable debate on whether banning something like that is an overreach or not. What are the benefits of the chemicals? What are the risks?

Re: FDA says aspartame is safe, disagreeing with WHO finding

#55

Post by freedomben » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 7:34 PM UTC

atlex2 wrote: post #53

Diet soda and sweeteners behind them are still a scam even if they don’t “cause cancer.” They’re a scam because they still cause insulin response. Pancreas cranks out insulin after tasting the soda, and there no blood sugar to react with. My uncle drank tons of Diet Coke and got pancreatic cancer. Doesn’t mean diet soda caused his pancreatic cancer, but he definitely didn’t loose weight by drinking the stuff.

> My uncle drank tons of Diet Coke and got pancreatic cancer. Doesn’t mean diet soda caused his pancreatic cancer, but he definitely didn’t loose weight by drinking the stuff.

The point for most people of Diet Coke isn't to lose weight. It's to avoid the harm caused by sugar, while still having something to drink. Diet sodas are definitely way, way better for anybody with sugar senstivities or diabetes. Plain water would be better, but that doesn't make Diet Coke a "scam."

Re: FDA says aspartame is safe, disagreeing with WHO finding

#56

Post by [deleted] » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 7:37 PM UTC

mrleinad wrote: post #40

legitster wrote: post #14

> Schubauer-Berigan acknowledged during a press conference with journalists Wednesday that the studies could contain flaws that skewed the results. She said the classification should be viewed as a call to conduct more research into whether aspartame can cause cancer in humans. > “Aspartame is one of the most studied food additives in the human food supply. FDA scientists do not have safety concerns when aspartame is…

> And given the alternative is sugar No, the alternative is to learn to enjoy bitter beverages. We don't need sweeteners.

[deleted]

Re: FDA says aspartame is safe, disagreeing with WHO finding

#57

Post by lukeschlather » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 7:39 PM UTC

karmaMeansCool wrote: post #37

I stopped drinking alcohol due to the possible cancer link seeming much greater than aspartame's link to cancer. It seems strange that the studies are much more conclusive on alcohol's role with cancer than aspartame, but the concerns are much higher for aspartame than alcohol. Part of me wonders why this is. One possible reason I see is that people's trust in the studies about aspartame are much lower than their tru…

> but the concerns are much higher for aspartame than alcohol

This is not true, at least with the WHO. Alcohol is a Group 1 carcinogen according to the WHO. It definitely causes cancer. The WHO classifies aspartame in Group 2b "possibly a carcinogen." There's some confusion over how to render uncertainty here, but the WHO does not actually classify aspartame as a carcinogen.

Re: FDA says aspartame is safe, disagreeing with WHO finding

#58

Post by vikingerik » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 7:40 PM UTC

klodolph wrote: post #47

BrianHenryIE wrote: post #15

It is "normal" that the US allows food (additives, at least) that is banned in Europe https://archive.is/N6JI1

It is also normal that many European foods are banned in the US. For every discussion I see about how the FDA is crazy for letting Americans consume all these various additives, I see another discussion about how the FDA is crazy for banning $EUROPEAN_FOOD. Unpasteurized milk is one of the more common ones people talk about (along with products made from unpasteurized milk). Kinder eggs were another, but the situatio…

Kinder eggs didn't change by the rule, the manufacturer just found a workaround. The rule is that a toy can't be inside food. The US version of Kinder eggs (Kinder Joy) comes in two separatable halves so that the toy isn't inside it.

Re: FDA says aspartame is safe, disagreeing with WHO finding

#59

Post by fatfingerd » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 7:42 PM UTC

justrealist wrote: post #43

fatfingerd wrote: post #41

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The only alternative isn't sugar. We need to back away from this whole project. We don't need to have everything taste like candy,

It's not the job of the FDA or WHO to tamper with scientific evidence to push people in that direction. That's how people lose trust in the institutions of science.

The WHO should hold back on condemning universal sweetening that will make it impossible for anyone to tally the amount they've consumed because people might go back to sugar? They should lie or they should say this path is also probably unsafe?

I don't really see anything inconsistent with the WHO or the FDA statements. The WHO wants health across contingencies and the FDA wants to sell diabetes causing drinks to the maximum extent that they don't provably hurt health.

Re: FDA says aspartame is safe, disagreeing with WHO finding

#60

Post by zwieback » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 7:44 PM UTC

atlex2 wrote: post #53

Diet soda and sweeteners behind them are still a scam even if they don’t “cause cancer.” They’re a scam because they still cause insulin response. Pancreas cranks out insulin after tasting the soda, and there no blood sugar to react with. My uncle drank tons of Diet Coke and got pancreatic cancer. Doesn’t mean diet soda caused his pancreatic cancer, but he definitely didn’t loose weight by drinking the stuff.

Is the science good on this claim? I keep hearing it and we should be more concerned about insulin spikes but is there really a correlation with sweeteners?