A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning (2016) • Hacker News Board

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning (2016)

#31

Post by pmarreck » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 5:32 PM UTC

supazek wrote: post #26

pmarreck wrote: post #4

> This may be nihilism, but at least it's good-humored. Whiffed on the fact that humor itself here is meaning. Explaining away positive experiences as "illusory" (which is, without evidence that it IS in fact "illusory" instead of just being conjecture based on currently-known facts, simply "gaslighting" to me), is the problem of nihilism (IMHO). Anyone ever consider the odd fact that every nonliving thing in the uni…

>living things take this weird detour into lower entropy Take a look at “Into the Cool” by Eric Schneider and Dorian Sagan. It’s about as academic as it can be while remaining accessible. It’s basic premise builds off of the truism that “nature abhors a gradient” and attempts to lay out a theory that the gradient of solar energy falling on the planet (along with a plethora of other rarer factors) generated higher-com…

oh wow, this DOES look fascinating. Thanks!

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning (2016)

#32

Post by mensetmanusman » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 5:33 PM UTC

"Science taught me that it's all just atoms and the void, so there can't be any deeper point or purpose to the whole thing"

Is this type of misunderstanding of what Science is that common? It's painfully lacking and I can't tell if it is written as sarcasm...

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning (2016)

#33

Post by pmarreck » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 5:33 PM UTC

downWidOutaFite wrote: post #15

grrdotcloud wrote: post #9

I am always curious why one continues to believe the beliefs that lead to pain, suffering, and unhappiness. Even if correct is being miserable worth it?

It's morally repulsive to me to believe something just because it makes me feel better.

I agree that feelings are not arguments and that beliefs should be justified by arguments, and not feelings.

And yet, if you believe your spouse "is the one for you" but have no hard evidence to back it up, but you feel it with every fiber of your being, you will still make a gigantically life-impactful decision about this person that is COMPLETELY inarguable. :P

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning (2016)

#34

Post by disadvantage » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 5:35 PM UTC

gooseus wrote: post #21

Long post and having only skimmed it for now, I think I mostly agree... though I don't think I could ever call myself a nihilist. The last section captures what I've tried to say in my own (not currently online) writing on the subject of life, existence, and purpose/meaning. > As far as we know, we and our societies take the prize for being the most complex structures the universe has yet evolved. This is where I end…

> Personally, I think that one of the most important human activities should be actively trying to seed other nebula, stars, and planets with archaic life, since this increases the overall probability that life will continue to evolve somewhere, even if humans fail to expand beyond Earth.

I think merely one Voyager Record[0] is not enough. We need to be sending millions of these in all directions right throughout space, and spaced out over decade intervals. Then there's a greater possibility of discovery/contact. We already do this to some degree with the Arecibo message[1], but probes like Voyager are better IMHO.

[0] https://voyager.jpl.nasa.gov/golden-record/

[1] https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arecibo_message

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning (2016)

#35

Post by jmdeon » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 5:35 PM UTC

I believe this is existentialism, not nihilism. They both start from the premise that the universe is inherently meaningless, but in existentialism you can create meaning while in nihilism you cannot.

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning (2016)

#36

Post by 1970-01-01 » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 5:38 PM UTC

mensetmanusman wrote: post #32

"Science taught me that it's all just atoms and the void, so there can't be any deeper point or purpose to the whole thing" Is this type of misunderstanding of what Science is that common? It's painfully lacking and I can't tell if it is written as sarcasm...

Yep, it's literally false. Astrophysicists estimate 5% of the universe is visible to us. Modern calculations say dark matter comprises about 27% of the Universe. Whatever else is out there, we truly do not know.

https://www.cfa.harvard.edu/big-questions/what-universe-made

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning (2016)

#37

Post by abdulhaq » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 5:40 PM UTC

For a nihilist this feels like a lot of verbiage about meaning

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning (2016)

#38

Post by CoastalCoder » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 5:41 PM UTC

adasdasdas wrote: post #29

CoastalCoder wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This topic interests me, but I've never really studied it. Would you mind sketching out your take on it?

It goes back to the answer to the question of, "what is the meaning of life", or its darker brother of a question "why bother living when you can kill yourself and end the suffering". A Christian might respond with, "God tells me to live and spread the gospel, raise children, and feed the needy". A Christian will tell you that this is how you ought to think too because all truth comes from the bible, which is why I c…

Thanks!

Now I'm wondering what definition of "meaning" people are using for this issue.

I wonder if the fuzziness of the term leads to people unwittingly talking past each other.

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning (2016)

#39

Post by photonthug » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 5:43 PM UTC

supazek wrote: post #26

pmarreck wrote: post #4

> This may be nihilism, but at least it's good-humored. Whiffed on the fact that humor itself here is meaning. Explaining away positive experiences as "illusory" (which is, without evidence that it IS in fact "illusory" instead of just being conjecture based on currently-known facts, simply "gaslighting" to me), is the problem of nihilism (IMHO). Anyone ever consider the odd fact that every nonliving thing in the uni…

>living things take this weird detour into lower entropy Take a look at “Into the Cool” by Eric Schneider and Dorian Sagan. It’s about as academic as it can be while remaining accessible. It’s basic premise builds off of the truism that “nature abhors a gradient” and attempts to lay out a theory that the gradient of solar energy falling on the planet (along with a plethora of other rarer factors) generated higher-com…

Other places to start reading about entropy in biology: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Autopoiesis https://www.nature.com/articles/d41586-019-01318-z

Re: A Nihilist's Guide to Meaning (2016)

#40

Post by c-hendricks » Fri, Jul 14, 2023, 5:43 PM UTC

> Nor was I satisfied with the obligatory secular follow-up, that you have to "make your own meaning."

> ...

> I mostly adopted the attitude of ... existence is fundamentally playful.

Sounds like you've made your own meaning!

> This may be nihilism

It's not. Literally, nihilism ends at "life / existence has no meaning". Trying to put a positive or negative spin on it takes it away from nihilism. Or, positive nihilism is closer to Hedonism, and negative nihilism is curmudgeonisn.

I think I hate philosophy.