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Guam: The America that Americans forget

nytimes.com

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Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#211

Post by zoky »

nl wrote: post #193
zoky wrote: post #156

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Given that many foreign airlines are at least in part government owned, this could be problematic. Do we really want Air China to come in and drastically undercut US based carriers in order to drive them out of business?

Sure? If the Chinese government (or more realistically Qatar or UAE etc) wants to subsidize US business and tourism by making it cheaper to fly within the US it seems like a good thing for the US. As we've seen, anytime an airline raises prices it is pretty easy for another carrier (or even a brand new carrier) to come in and replace them. So it isn't like a hypothetical foreign government owned carrier could somehow…

I guess I just don’t get it then. What’s wrong with the following scenario:

1) China comes in and undercuts US prices.

2) US carriers are unable to compete with a business subsidized by one of the largest economies in the world, and China Air forms a monopoly as it drives competitors out of business.

3) China Air folds, leaving the US with no means of air travel at all.

I’m pretty sure China could outlast any airline in the US in a price war, given how thin the margins that US carriers already operate on are. They don’t have to care about making profits—their only goal is to damage the US economy, as on the world stage it’s a zero-sum game. Any damage to the US is a benefit to China.

So yeah, let them. And what effect do you think it will have on the economy when there are literally zero air carriers left in the United States?

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#212

Post by throw47474777j »

alluro2 wrote: post #207
throw47474777j wrote: post #110

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> It’s pretty much the same thing Russia is doing. Complete gibberish. You can’t seriously be claiming that cities in Guam are being turned to rubble under heavy artillery fire, and children being kidnapped etc. Ukraine is at war .

Ukraine is still at war because the west is helping them repel an occupator. Let's say China started supporting people in Guam who want independence, and supplying them with weapons - that would be just and a good thing, right? Because you did posit in the previous reply that it's completely expected and a fact of life that larger powers overtake these smaller ones - like USA and Guam, and Russia and Ukraine.

> Let's say China started supporting people in Guam who want independence

Sounds like you’ve forgotten that Russia marched on Ukraine’s capital, deliberately shelling civilian targets, and Ukraine fought off the Russians on their own for weeks, completely defying everyone’s expectations, which is why the West is now supplying weapons to them.

On top of that Ukraine was an independent state with a treaty with a Russia guaranteeing that.

Can you tell us again how Guan is like Ukraine?

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#213

Post by TulliusCicero »

zoky wrote: post #156
TulliusCicero wrote: post #80

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I wish we'd get rid of this rule entirely. Just seems like naked protectionism, no? If a non-US carrier abides by local regulations, I don't see an issue with letting them run domestic flights.

Given that many foreign airlines are at least in part government owned, this could be problematic. Do we really want Air China to come in and drastically undercut US based carriers in order to drive them out of business?

If it's price dumping or heavily government subsidized I suppose not, but if they're just more competitive then I don't see the issue.

Realistically I just don't think that's gonna happen, if they have to abide by local labor laws.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#214

Post by fishywang »

I visited Guam back in 2014 to empty my UA miles as China-Guam used to be a sweet spot for UA miles redemption back then.

I actually got trouble entering Guam because back then I was on L1 visa, which only allows me to enter the US for work, and my employer does not have any office at Guam and I don't have a connection from Guam to US mainland. After being held at the airport for hours (I believe they called my hotel for verification) they finally stamped a parole on my passport and let me in.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#215

Post by sidewndr46 »

cygnusmove wrote: post #131

Was born in Saipan, a smaller island next to Guam. Americans didn’t forget Guam and Northern Mariana Islands. It’s more like Americans were never aware we are part of America to begin with. Hell, I got married in the States recently. My marriage license registration didn’t go through because my birthplace wasn’t a thing in the online application form. My wife had no issue, and she was born in a foreign country.

Sounds like fun. They probably ask what country Saipan was part of when you mentioned it too right?

I've always wondered if anyone has been born on Palmyra Atoll, would make for fun trying to get documents saying as such

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#216

Post by leobabauta »

metaphor wrote: post #94

Maleffa yu ni kostumbren taotao tano, kon todo i lengguahe; mampos Amerikanon pao asu yu pago...and yet any way I looked at it---whether as an ethnic native of the Marianas who grew up with wideband exposure to what definitely seemed like a pronounced bimodal economic distribution; or as a veteran who eagerly and proudly served for a decade; or as an assimilated American who benefits from the resources and opportunit…

I'm with you, che'lu.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#217

Post by boeingUH60 »

alluro2 wrote: post #203
deaddodo wrote: post #152

Earlier quoted context omitted.

The territories can at any point take a (democratic and non-contestable) vote for their sovereignty. If a majority decided to become a sovereign entity, it's very unlikely the United States would not grant them it. They can also do the same for statehood, but that's a bit more complicated; even so, before 2000, a majority of the United States was pro allowing Puerto Rico statehood, if they decided it. Now....well, go…

I think your comment is extremely ignorant to obstacles intentionally crafted to prevent those kinds of things in reality. That political infighting does not exist by itself. Another part is that half of the island is by now dependent on a member of family being in the Navy, housing prices are unmanageable, they rely on food stamps etc etc. To which you are saying - why do they want independence then when they're not…

Guam will become much poorer if they secede anyways, so I doubt they would.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#218

Post by leobabauta »

I'm from Guam, and half Chamoru. Most of the comments in this thread show the ignorance that this article is pointing out — Americans don't understand the situation in Guam, because they've never had to really pay attention.

Guam is a U.S. colony that has benefitted from the U.S., but has also been overrun by Americans and people from Asia, so that Chamorus are now a minority on the island. We've long wanted to have a vote to decolonize, but this has been blocked by Americans on the island who demand to have a vote in a matter that should be up to the Chamorus.

As a result of blocking decolonization, we have been impacted greatly:

* Big military bases have brought a militarized mindset to the residents.

* Those bases were taken without asking or recompense, and drive up land prices, which drives up the price of everything else.

* The U.S. has protected U.S. corporations from competition (Jones Act, etc) which drives up the prices as well.

* The U.S. has set immigration policies to benefit itself, leading to a flood of immigrants who the U.S. doesn't pay for (healthcare, education).

* U.S. corporations have taken over commerce (think big box stores and chain restaurants), leading to a loss of the local culture.

* Guam residents are mostly in poverty, undereducated, with terrible health. You could argue that it's our own fault, but the U.S.'s unthinking impact has created a system that leads to these results.

There's a lot more to this — it's an incredibly deep topic — but I thought there should be a voice here from someone who understands the issues.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#219

Post by coufu »

RileyJames wrote: post #167
emmelaich wrote: post #96

Sorta related, Guam is a good place for game servers to have similar pings for Asia, Oceania and USA (sorta) https://www.oneqode.com/guam/

Yea I recently started hosting a very niche game server in Guam (action quake 2) because of its central location. It’s 95ms from Melbourne, AU, 110ms from Auckland, NZ and about 120ms from west coast US. Central US is probably about 150ms. All of which are very close playable. Living in Australia, as a teen FPS gamer it was always frustrating to know that no matter what tech comes next, the physical distance is the l…

As someone who grew up in Guam, that’s really interesting to hear the island being used as a workaround for ping times. I was always frustrated getting 100-200ms on games like Quake 3 and Unreal Tournament while everyone in the US had much lower pings. Then again, I was playing on US servers. Maybe if I was privy to people using Guam servers as a workaround to bridge the ping gap in this way, I could have used it to my advantage and had the lowest pings on Guam servers haha. I’d probably still lose though, but at least I wouldn’t be able to blame it on ping time.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#220

Post by Rebelgecko »

squeaky-clean wrote: post #119
Rebelgecko wrote: post #78

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Just space them out out or even take a couple days to visit Japan. Some airports even have programs where they'll take you on a field trip during your layover

It's not impossible to do. It just sounds silly that the best way to take a 5 day trip in Guam is to take a 2 day trip in Japan and a 3 day trip in Guam.

I wonder if there's a big list of places that take unintuitively long to get to? Friend of mine flew from California to South America a few years ago by way of Paris (which I think is a requirement for French Guiana?)
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