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Guam: The America that Americans forget

nytimes.com

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Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#201

Post by FrustratedMonky »

superturkey650 wrote: post #200
FrustratedMonky wrote: post #188

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It is an interesting idea to explore: Why do humans predominantly want to live in bigger and bigger groups. Sure, there are a few people that want to live out in the country, but cities are big because people want to be there. Humans like groups.

Bigger groups of people allow for better economies of scale and allow for a wider variety of businesses and interests to be catered to.

And more bars, restaurants, theaters. It isn't just economics that drive people to be together. People also like to be together, and bigger groups allow more group activities. Kind of both, in a feedback loop. Economics, jobs, and fun.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#202

Post by codyb »

justahuman74 wrote: post #92
TulliusCicero wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt a majority of Guam residents want independence at this point. Being part of the US is economically useful, compared to being a small independent island. But yeah, statehood would solve the representation issue.

Could they join onto another state (Alaska? Hawaii?), Guam's population is very low to have a full 2 senators

Talking about proportionality and the Senate is like talking about fine dining and McDonalds.

Although, oddly enough it seemed to be a small bulwark _against_ extremism in the last election since you can't gerrymander a Senate race. So that was a pleasant surprise.

As a NYer the fact others get 40 times my representation is irksome though.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#203

Post by alluro2 »

deaddodo wrote: post #152
anonym29 wrote: post #69

No taxation without representation. Stop charging the inhabitants for any and all U.S. taxes. Hell, decolonize and let them have their freedom and independence.

The territories can at any point take a (democratic and non-contestable) vote for their sovereignty. If a majority decided to become a sovereign entity, it's very unlikely the United States would not grant them it. They can also do the same for statehood, but that's a bit more complicated; even so, before 2000, a majority of the United States was pro allowing Puerto Rico statehood, if they decided it. Now....well, go…

I think your comment is extremely ignorant to obstacles intentionally crafted to prevent those kinds of things in reality. That political infighting does not exist by itself. Another part is that half of the island is by now dependent on a member of family being in the Navy, housing prices are unmanageable, they rely on food stamps etc etc. To which you are saying - why do they want independence then when they're not prepared for it - but this situation was created outside of their control, and they now don't have means to "prepare for it". Also, you might have skipped the part where their draft resolutions are getting just automatically ignored/denied by UN at every assembly.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#204

Post by thomasjb »

justahuman74 wrote: post #92
TulliusCicero wrote: post #74

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I doubt a majority of Guam residents want independence at this point. Being part of the US is economically useful, compared to being a small independent island. But yeah, statehood would solve the representation issue.

Could they join onto another state (Alaska? Hawaii?), Guam's population is very low to have a full 2 senators

Maybe add a third house to the US system for the territories?

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#205

Post by NikolaNovak »

sugarkjube wrote: post #137
nequo wrote: post #130

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Guam’s population is 169 thousand, about 10% of the city where you live. It is an island 3,800 miles from Hawaii. I doubt that this situation is comparable to yours.

169.000 ? Funny, I live in a city of 15.000, not even in the city, and think its way too crowded. So much that i'm actually thinking of moving to a 100 ppl village, closest "city" 3000 ppl. Never even been in a starbucks, nor wanting to, I guess preferences differ. Remote work is a blessing.

>>guess preferences differ.

That is a very important realization and self awareness, alaways :)

Fwiw I lived in 600k-2m cities most of my life. I now moved to a 50k city (for love :) ,but problem is it's a satellite city - a 50k city in rural Minnesota or Manitoba will be a local centre with many amenities and a certain vibe. A 50k city on the greater Toronto area is just a commute residential park.

Anyhoo, I always enjoy people complaining about city becoming bigger because... They themselves moved here! If you moved to that 100ppl place you would be the problem, the 101st person- while likely complaining about other people moving in and ruining it for everyone :). It's like when I'm stuck in traffic and people in the car with me get annoyed "where do all these people think they have to be on a Sunday morning???" - erm, just like us you mean? :)

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#206

Post by hiidrew »

wayne wrote: post #25

The article touches a little on flight costs, but as someone who'd love to visit sometime and never has, it annoys me how flights to Guam work. Given its location most airlines don't fly direct from the mainland, so many flights to Guam are from Asia. But, you can't buy a ticket from the US with a layover in Japan from JAL or with a layover in Korea from Korean Air because any flight with a US origin to a US destinat…

Sounds similar to the article's mention of the Jones Act and the issues it causes.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#207

Post by alluro2 »

throw47474777j wrote: post #110
sreejithr wrote: post #49

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Of course it’s impossible to undo evils of the past. I’m talking about the present though. The islanders shouldn’t be invaded for “power projection” because they are human beings too. It’s pretty much the same thing Russia is doing.

> It’s pretty much the same thing Russia is doing. Complete gibberish. You can’t seriously be claiming that cities in Guam are being turned to rubble under heavy artillery fire, and children being kidnapped etc. Ukraine is at war .

Ukraine is still at war because the west is helping them repel an occupator.

Let's say China started supporting people in Guam who want independence, and supplying them with weapons - that would be just and a good thing, right?

Because you did posit in the previous reply that it's completely expected and a fact of life that larger powers overtake these smaller ones - like USA and Guam, and Russia and Ukraine.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#208

Post by actionfromafar »

zirgs wrote: post #183
actionfromafar wrote: post #29

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I’m not sure what the joke is. Sweden had an atomic bomb program which was dropped in the 1970s after assurances from the US to extend its “nuclear umbrella” to protect Sweden.

So if the USSR were to attack Sweden then what would the USA do exactly?

I don’t know. Most of it is still classified, but whatever it was, it was enough to assure Swedish governments of the time. (70s - early 90s)

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#209

Post by Slava_Propanei »

nl wrote: post #190
actionfromafar wrote: post #163

Earlier quoted context omitted.

OTOH I would guesstimate Guam to be much more politically stable than Bali or Thailand.

Thailand perhaps (although I'd note that political instability in Thailand is carefully done to avoid disturbing the tourism industry in anyway). But it's been many years (25? If you count Timor crisis?) since any significant political disturbance in Bali/Indonesia and only 3 years since a coup attempt in Guam/USA.

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Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#210

Post by Slava_Propanei »

lmm wrote: post #111
Aerbil313 wrote: post #91

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> those who feel limited by the island and its infrastructure (no Target, no Starbucks, etc.) I hate those people. I live in a city of 1.5 million (there's everything here), and it's a constant background radiation talking point for a significant number of my highschool friends: how unfortunate they are that they don't live in the nearby city of 15 million. IME this constant moping has everything to do with the amoun…

> it's a constant background radiation talking point for a significant number of my highschool friends: how unfortunate they are that they don't live in the nearby city of 15 million. IME this constant moping has everything to do with the amount of social media one consumes daily. Well, you've managed to one-up them in how tiresome and cliched your talking point is.

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