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VanMoof encryption key exporter

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Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#171

Post by dr_dshiv »

oblio wrote: post #144
dr_dshiv wrote: post #89

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Isn’t the assumption that they are losing money on the cost of expansion, not the material cost? Eg, if they were only selling in the Netherlands it would be profitable—but they are paying for international growth and that isn’t profitable.

Nobody would hand them over hundreds of millions of dollars just for the Dutch market, though.

The point is that it might have made sense as a big business but not necessarily as an international growth story. If you can sell 100k bikes with $1000 profit (~15% of cost) that’s still 100M profit.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#172

Post by dtech »

oblio wrote: post #153
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that when they first came out, they were actually pretty affordable; since then, competition and mass production spun up and you can get an e-bike for <€1K now, and they'll be less custom made, more generally available parts too. The brand's USP then became that they look and are pretty unique, which is cool on one hand, but they weren't able to make it financially viable. Probably because they relied on VC mone…

My problem, especially with electric bikes is: What are the decent, mass market brands??? I'm in Europe, I don't want to buy a Mercedes S Class. Who sells the Volkswagen Golf of electric bikes? I just want decent build quality, decent comfort, decent features, good repairability and easy maintenance. The electric bike market seems immature to me. I want 20-30 big bike brands that I can compare, just like the car bran…

In the Netherlands all the big bike brands are doing a lot of E-bikes, and there's a gazillion small competitors who do cheap bikes with mostly off-the-shelf components. The bigger brands include Gazelle, Giant, Batavus and Sparta.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#173

Post by Arnt »

Bootvis wrote: post #157
Arnt wrote: post #138

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not OP, but I live in Munich and have heard of both six-week and one-day waiting times this summer. It depends on part availability. One day is common, six weeks not unheard of. A friend waited almost that long when two strange and unusual screws had to be replaced, the wrong ones arrived from the manufacturer, etc. The quick routine procedures failed her, the result was slow. Just from what I hear, it seems that the…

It was claimed six weeks was common, common is more like 'average' than it is to '99th percentile'. Your example of the missing screws is unfortunate but it also sounds like something that is not 'common'.

Right. Old and unusual screws, a misunderstanding on the phone, someone on vacation... it was an uncommon congregation of bad luck.

Words like "common" have stretchable meanings, though, and particularly on Twitter.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#174

Post by madeofpalk »

jjav wrote: post #14
ano-ther wrote: post #8

Honest question: what’s the appeal of a bike that needs an internet connection & app to unlock?

> Honest question: what’s the appeal of a bike that needs an internet connection & app to unlock? I struggle to understand those who think something like that could be a good idea. Isn't it obvious that an app will not be around for as long as a bike can last? I have a bike from the early 90s, that's over 30 years. Does anyone think an app will be around even for 10 years, let alone 30+?

Honest answer - I don't expect the e-bike to last past 10 years. I expect(ed) that by the time the app was unavailable I would have moved on to a different e-bike for whatever reason.

I don't want a non-e-bike. I want a bike with pedal assist.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#175

Post by kanar1e »

oblio wrote: post #153
Cthulhu_ wrote: post #38

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Note that when they first came out, they were actually pretty affordable; since then, competition and mass production spun up and you can get an e-bike for <€1K now, and they'll be less custom made, more generally available parts too. The brand's USP then became that they look and are pretty unique, which is cool on one hand, but they weren't able to make it financially viable. Probably because they relied on VC mone…

My problem, especially with electric bikes is: What are the decent, mass market brands??? I'm in Europe, I don't want to buy a Mercedes S Class. Who sells the Volkswagen Golf of electric bikes? I just want decent build quality, decent comfort, decent features, good repairability and easy maintenance. The electric bike market seems immature to me. I want 20-30 big bike brands that I can compare, just like the car bran…

In the Netherlands at least most of the established brands (Gazelle, Sparta, Batavus) have been selling e-bikes for 15-20 years now with sales really taking off in the last 5-10. Most are comfortable city bikes that use standard bike parts. Battery performance has improved a lot over the years and most models allow you to remove (and replace) the battery. Depending on where you live they may be sold under different brand names. I saw that Sparta is for instance sold as Hercules in Germany.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#176

Post by oblio »

oezi wrote: post #167
oblio wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem, especially with electric bikes is: What are the decent, mass market brands??? I'm in Europe, I don't want to buy a Mercedes S Class. Who sells the Volkswagen Golf of electric bikes? I just want decent build quality, decent comfort, decent features, good repairability and easy maintenance. The electric bike market seems immature to me. I want 20-30 big bike brands that I can compare, just like the car bran…

I mean there are the big brands incl. KTM, Decathlon (elops), Fischer, Bergamont, Cube, Haibike, Stevens... But the comparability requires you first to pick a type of bike.

Well, I guess I want a robust EV, from what I see with a Bosch electric motor, probably a belt drive. Commuter bike, low frame, disk brakes. Transmission, dunno, Bosch or from what I see, maybe Pinion? I think Shimano doesn't make belt drives.

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#177

Post by oblio »

kanar1e wrote: post #175
oblio wrote: post #153

Earlier quoted context omitted.

My problem, especially with electric bikes is: What are the decent, mass market brands??? I'm in Europe, I don't want to buy a Mercedes S Class. Who sells the Volkswagen Golf of electric bikes? I just want decent build quality, decent comfort, decent features, good repairability and easy maintenance. The electric bike market seems immature to me. I want 20-30 big bike brands that I can compare, just like the car bran…

In the Netherlands at least most of the established brands (Gazelle, Sparta, Batavus) have been selling e-bikes for 15-20 years now with sales really taking off in the last 5-10. Most are comfortable city bikes that use standard bike parts. Battery performance has improved a lot over the years and most models allow you to remove (and replace) the battery. Depending on where you live they may be sold under different b…

Those are all 2k+ from what I see, so closer to Mercedes S Class than to Golf.

Golf would be a 1k bike as the original comment mentioned :-(

Re: VanMoof encryption key exporter

#179

Post by oezi »

Gasp0de wrote: post #117
clydethefrog wrote: post #104

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There is a lot of bikes in Amsterdam in general. Van Moof just stands out because of their 1 marketing, 2 annoying signature noise whenever people bump into them, 3 loud owners that general use it as a status symbol and 4 joke status due to national Dutch publications writing about all the shortcomings of owning this bike. I live in Groningen, a Dutch city that is even more suited for bikes, and I rarely spot any Van…

If you rent a swapfiets for 8 years, you have owned a shitty 100€-bicycle for 8 years for the price of 1920€. I can buy a shitty bike for 100€ every year and still be less than half as expensive than swapfiets. Their business model are people who are unwilling to do and/or learn basic maintenance on their bikes.

A swapfiets isn't as shitty as a 100 EUR bike (which is used and shitty).
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