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Guam: The America that Americans forget

nytimes.com

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Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#21

Post by thaumasiotes »

mc32 wrote: post #16
macintux wrote: post #9

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Because we benefit disproportionately from world peace, uninterrupted shipping, and the world economy using the U.S. dollar as its reserve currency.

The dollar became the world currency by accident after the OPEC started pricing petroleum in dollars. We're starting to see a slow departure from that. If we did not spend those extra tens of billions per year in projecting power, we could better serve our students, workers, retirees, infrastructure, etc. Instead, they go to ensuring Japan, Korea, Philippines, etc. don't have to spend so much on defense. As China asc…

> I'd be happy [if China] were the ones keeping shipping lanes for their own exports open and not us

History's not on your side for that one. You're talking about the country that, plagued by pirates disturbing its coastal shipping, went to massive expense to construct an enormous system of inland canals running parallel to the coast that the pirates couldn't reach.

If Chinese merchants wanted the sea kept clear, say because they wanted to trade with nearby islands, they had do that in their own private capacity. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Koxinga

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#22

Post by sreejithr »

jakear wrote: post #12
sreejithr wrote: post #7

Earlier quoted context omitted.

What about those islanders though? "Power projection" is important. But it's sad that its at the expense of human beings who live and work there.

This could be (and has been) said about literally any "first peoples" anywhere. Does something about them being "islanders" change things for you?

Oh so since we’ve screwed natives before, it’s fine to do it again to islanders? We shouldn’t ask these questions because we’ve done worse anyway?

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#23

Post by speakfreely »

mc32 wrote: post #8
baggy_trough wrote: post #5

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I don't understand why "only" and "and nothing more" are present in that sentence. You don't think strategic projection of power is important?

Sometimes you have to let countries duke it out themselves and settle their scores by themselves. I also think post Cold War, we're spending way too much money protecting others at US taxpayer expense. Let those countries defend themselves. Why do we have to be the world police and take all the blowback?

This entire narrative reads like someone who has not consumed any geopolitical news whatsoever since the mid-2010s.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#24

Post by zirgs »

mcculley wrote: post #14
mc32 wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Sometimes you have to let countries duke it out themselves and settle their scores by themselves. I also think post Cold War, we're spending way too much money protecting others at US taxpayer expense. Let those countries defend themselves. Why do we have to be the world police and take all the blowback?

An implicit deal we have made with many other states is that in exchange for managing the peace, they will not develop or further develop nuclear capability. To me, that is worth a lot.

Yup - if we didn't accept Finland and Sweden into NATO then their only option to prevent a Russian invasion would be to develop nukes and aim them at St. Petersburg.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#25

Post by wayne »

The article touches a little on flight costs, but as someone who'd love to visit sometime and never has, it annoys me how flights to Guam work. Given its location most airlines don't fly direct from the mainland, so many flights to Guam are from Asia. But, you can't buy a ticket from the US with a layover in Japan from JAL or with a layover in Korea from Korean Air because any flight with a US origin to a US destination can only be sold by a US carrier. That eliminates all Asian competition and the US airlines get a monopoly even though they barely fly there and many of these flights are codeshares being operated by Asian airlines!

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#26

Post by refurb »

mc32 wrote: post #19
c_o_n_v_e_x wrote: post #18

Earlier quoted context omitted.

I know someone who grew up near a US base in the Philippines. Her father was employed as a cook at the base. When the base was closed, they went back to eeking out a living through subsistence farming. There are some positive economic impacts for the locals.

Then there is Okinawa and like a thorn, despite all their rejection, we remain unwelcome squatters.

I mean, starting a war comes at a cost sometimes.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#28

Post by jakear »

sreejithr wrote: post #22
jakear wrote: post #12

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This could be (and has been) said about literally any "first peoples" anywhere. Does something about them being "islanders" change things for you?

Oh so since we’ve screwed natives before, it’s fine to do it again to islanders? We shouldn’t ask these questions because we’ve done worse anyway?

Talk when you've given your house back to whatever native people were there before you.

Or should you give it to the "native" people that were there before them? Or the ones before those ones?

Or maybe just accept that the one constant of life is everyone takes everyone else's shit if/when they can/want.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#29

Post by actionfromafar »

zirgs wrote: post #24
mcculley wrote: post #14

Earlier quoted context omitted.

An implicit deal we have made with many other states is that in exchange for managing the peace, they will not develop or further develop nuclear capability. To me, that is worth a lot.

Yup - if we didn't accept Finland and Sweden into NATO then their only option to prevent a Russian invasion would be to develop nukes and aim them at St. Petersburg.

I’m not sure what the joke is.

Sweden had an atomic bomb program which was dropped in the 1970s after assurances from the US to extend its “nuclear umbrella” to protect Sweden.

Re: Guam: The America that Americans forget

#30

Post by triceratops »

wayne wrote: post #25

The article touches a little on flight costs, but as someone who'd love to visit sometime and never has, it annoys me how flights to Guam work. Given its location most airlines don't fly direct from the mainland, so many flights to Guam are from Asia. But, you can't buy a ticket from the US with a layover in Japan from JAL or with a layover in Korea from Korean Air because any flight with a US origin to a US destinat…

Can't you buy 2 separate tickets?
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