Boston mayor announces residential conversion program for office buildings • Hacker News Board

Re: Boston mayor announces residential conversion program for office buildings

#121

Post by kbenson » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 10:52 PM UTC

twelvechairs wrote: post #112

Its a delicate balance with these things. Residential brings life to the monotonous business areas and helps to improve housing supply (often not by an awful lot) but on the other hand, once you lose office sites they are generally gone forever (because of multiple ownership you can almost never convert from residential back to office) and even though the office market is taking a big hit from working from home / rem…

> even though the office market is taking a big hit from working from home / remote, the broader trend of the past 100 years is more and more jobs being concentrated into fewer and fewer office district that have to be larger and larger in critical mass.

Well, the question is whether we hit an inflection point which changed the future drastically and invalidated data based on prior trends or not. So, does remote work just alleviate how quickly office space needs were growing (and if so is it to the point that new office space could be built), or does it actually reverse the trend to a degree?

Re: Boston mayor announces residential conversion program for office buildings

#122

Post by xrd » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 10:54 PM UTC

Mayor Wu seems like the best mayor in the US. I saw her take a selfie with Bad Bunny backstage at his concert. She's obviously got her pulse on young blood over old blood. I need to learn more about how she thinks. Anyone have a link?

Re: Boston mayor announces residential conversion program for office buildings

#123

Post by eagleinparadise » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 10:56 PM UTC

jimt1234 wrote: post #85

I'm confused. Why is this program necessary? If building owners are sitting on vacant space because the demand for office space has dropped, while the demand for housing continues to rise, aren't they already incentivized to convert to residential space just based on the market conditions? Not sure why the city has to subsidize the property owners.

Most office buildings are not architecturally feasible to convert to residential. In fact, because of zoning laws, many/most can't even be converted.

Would you live in an apartment 15 feet wide and 50 feet deep? No. That's why most office buildings dont work

You have to redo all the mechanical, plumbing, electric, and then entirely refinish the building. Its literally cheaper to build new than deal with the nightmare that is to convert an office.

I work in CRE - every single office to multi deal i have seen the developer has war stories. And the units are 40-100% more expensive in cost than other apartments.

Office buildings are like an infectious disease. You could let them die. But if you have an urban infill city environment and more and more office properties become ghost buildings, then that disease will spread. All of the restaurants and other businesses nearby that rely on the foot traffic from office folk, they will die. You will see more riff raff. More homeless. More crime.

Many office assets need to go to 0 in asset value before the private market is willing to take the risk of those conversions.

Remember, loans are close to 10% for construction. And equity returns are higher.

Re: Boston mayor announces residential conversion program for office buildings

#124

Post by ktosobcy » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 11:00 PM UTC

twelvechairs wrote: post #112

Its a delicate balance with these things. Residential brings life to the monotonous business areas and helps to improve housing supply (often not by an awful lot) but on the other hand, once you lose office sites they are generally gone forever (because of multiple ownership you can almost never convert from residential back to office) and even though the office market is taking a big hit from working from home / rem…

I never understood the need to concentrate all the offices in the single focal point of the city. And currently with WFH it seems to make even more sense to distribute office spaces in local "co-working" spaces and in the end mix residential with work making it intertwined (zoning in the USA, from what I understand, is weird as hack…)

Re: Boston mayor announces residential conversion program for office buildings

#125

Post by micromacrofoot » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 11:03 PM UTC

bmitc wrote: post #63

micromacrofoot wrote: post #57

Earlier quoted context omitted.

because supply has almost never outpaced demand in these cities

Under what conditions or reality will supply ever outpace demand in big cities like Boston or New York? I don't think it's physically, realistically, or pragmatically possible.

it’s not, so short of the economy collapsing more housing won’t reverse pricing it will only slow it… this is expected

Re: Boston mayor announces residential conversion program for office buildings

#126

Post by cramjabsyn » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 11:05 PM UTC

twelvechairs wrote: post #112

Its a delicate balance with these things. Residential brings life to the monotonous business areas and helps to improve housing supply (often not by an awful lot) but on the other hand, once you lose office sites they are generally gone forever (because of multiple ownership you can almost never convert from residential back to office) and even though the office market is taking a big hit from working from home / rem…

Oh no not office suites being gone forever.

Don’t worry they’ll rebuild. They always rebuild.

Re: Boston mayor announces residential conversion program for office buildings

#127

Post by tomrod » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 11:06 PM UTC

ch4s3 wrote: post #8

lusus_naturae wrote: post #6

Earlier quoted context omitted.

It depends. If everything is owned by the same management or equity firm, then no.

The idea that a single firm or even a stable cartel could effectively control prices in a market as large as Boston is just naive.

But if everyone uses the same software for rent or the same model to price housing...

Re: Boston mayor announces residential conversion program for office buildings

#128

Post by worik » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 11:07 PM UTC

twelvechairs wrote: post #112

Its a delicate balance with these things. Residential brings life to the monotonous business areas and helps to improve housing supply (often not by an awful lot) but on the other hand, once you lose office sites they are generally gone forever (because of multiple ownership you can almost never convert from residential back to office) and even though the office market is taking a big hit from working from home / rem…

> Residential brings life to the monotonous business areas and helps to improve housing supply (often not by an awful lot) but on the other hand, once you lose office sites they are generally gone forever

I am not a town planner, but this makes little sense to me.

Can you not have mixed use?

Re: Boston mayor announces residential conversion program for office buildings

#129

Post by gameman144 » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 11:08 PM UTC

ktosobcy wrote: post #124

twelvechairs wrote: post #112

Its a delicate balance with these things. Residential brings life to the monotonous business areas and helps to improve housing supply (often not by an awful lot) but on the other hand, once you lose office sites they are generally gone forever (because of multiple ownership you can almost never convert from residential back to office) and even though the office market is taking a big hit from working from home / rem…

I never understood the need to concentrate all the offices in the single focal point of the city. And currently with WFH it seems to make even more sense to distribute office spaces in local "co-working" spaces and in the end mix residential with work making it intertwined (zoning in the USA, from what I understand, is weird as hack…)

For professions or companies where in-person collaboration is still needed, bigger concentration of business helps focus infrastructure investment into areas where it is most impactful. For instance, it's easier to make a subway line go through an area with lots of offices than it would be to have multiple separate lines passing through satellite hubs.

Re: Boston mayor announces residential conversion program for office buildings

#130

Post by wolpoli » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 11:09 PM UTC

steveBK123 wrote: post #34

hardwaregeek wrote: post #27

Earlier quoted context omitted.

But you effectively get another set of apartments that have interior windows. Sure they’re not gonna have a great view but they’re still rentable apartments

Depending on what you do with the interior, they can actually be great apartments. Much quieter than street facing, put a nice little courtyard in the center.. etc.

It definitely needs to be designed properly.

I once worked in an office where all the windows face a plain interior courtyard. It was terrible as nothing ever moved and you could only see the ground, more windows, and the sky.