Earlier quoted context omitted.
I got stuck in the United States, was not allowed to fly back home until I got a negative result on a rapid test. It still took a week to test negative after I'd been symptom free.
Were you a citizen or permanent resident of the country you call home? As far as I know almost no countries put restrictions on their own citizens from returning. Some had quarantine requirements.
Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
211–220 of 236 posts
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#212Earlier quoted context omitted.
I think it's deeper than just they need to believe the "democrats" or whatever invented it, or so on. There are people intensely invested in an ideological model of the world where solidarity and any kind of collective action are inherently immoral and also that their own self-interest is paramount. They've been taught it since they were kids, regardless of party. Being a selfish asshole is a virtue to them. It's an…
> Easy for folks like me who got to work from home but pretty damn vile if you were an hourly wage worker. So I get where a lot of the anger comes from. Right. And that's if you bought into the principle of it. If you looked around at real outcomes — rather than intentions and propaganda — then it was far worse. Government was spending a ton making their pals rich, and people like you and me a teeny bit safer. But it…
Did government mismanage COVID? Yep. Did they do in an unjust way? Yep. You know what's worse? Savagely letting the vulnerable die, and the rather .. deplorable ... people who built a whole ideological edifice out of complaining about social duties during the pandemic and pretending it was all fake.
It's not like it wasn't possible to be critical of gov't approaches and also pitch in to help out.
Lots of suspect motivations and people.
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#213Earlier quoted context omitted.
"experts" keep your plane in the air, your water safe to drink, your electricity supply consistent and steady, and on and on. Putting scare quotes around the word "experts" says more about you than the experts.
You and I were told by “experts” that amalgams of B+ rated mortgages could be, in combination, AAA securities. You and I were told by “experts” that SH had WMD and that the brief war would cost about 400M. Yes, I hope my scare quotes do, indeed, say something about me.
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#214Earlier quoted context omitted.
"experts" keep your plane in the air, your water safe to drink, your electricity supply consistent and steady, and on and on. Putting scare quotes around the word "experts" says more about you than the experts.
Policy is extremely different from engineering. Would you accept “policy experts”?
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#215Earlier quoted context omitted.
I can figure out for myself if I have symptoms or not
Sometimes in society, we adopt laws that are about keeping other people safe more than they are about keeping yourself comfortable. You might feel inconvenienced. Ultimately, you're the beneficiary of this too. Your life is going to be a lot longer, because the people around you are occasionally inconvenienced for your benefit. If this isn't acceptable to you, I'm sorry about that, that's tough.
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#216Earlier quoted context omitted.
How? I wouldn't know the difference between a seasonal cold (or flu) or COVID, mostly because I've never had COVID.
Every time I've gotten together with my family for Christmas the past few years, a very virulent infection has ripped though the household, getting everyone sick within a week, and taking me out of commission for a large part of the trip. Every time I think to myself, "this is it, we all got COVID. I can tick off the symptoms." None of those times were COVID (as confirmed by PCR tests). More recently I was getting re…
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#217Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#218Earlier quoted context omitted.
You and I were told by “experts” that amalgams of B+ rated mortgages could be, in combination, AAA securities. You and I were told by “experts” that SH had WMD and that the brief war would cost about 400M. Yes, I hope my scare quotes do, indeed, say something about me.
The fact that the weather forecast is sometimes wrong doesn't mean you should listen to your best friend about whether to pack an umbrella. Demanding that experts be right all the time is unrealistic. And damning all experts because some used their authority to lie is sub-optimal.
All the crap these “experts” pushed was the exact opposite of what was in tons of different pandemic plans. It was all unproven and untested. Making us all in unconsenting research subjects.
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#21940-50% of cases are asymptomatic, so the tests are still good at confirming if a symptom is COVID-19. By taking 3 tests over time the odds of detection are better. But almost everyone has stopped wearing masks, so for those people, testing is pointless anyway. It would be like putting a lock on your own firearm, and then wandering naked across a firing range.
Yeah, and those tests are $5-$10/per. So I'm supposed to spend $20 to find out I'm asymptomatic or not even infected so I can isolate myself? People get sick. People die. It's not fair, but it also is fair because we all die. Death is actually the only fair thing there is.
Re: Rapid Covid tests miss 90% of asymptomatic cases
#220Earlier quoted context omitted.
The subtitle of your Jul 2020 essay criticizing PCR tests is "Why COVID-19 is guaranteed to never end". But in fact, judging by confirmed (by PCR, or by other tests grounded in PCR as you say) COVID-19 deaths, the pandemic has ended--the daily count has decreased by a factor of ~50 from the peak. Does that not suggest to you that maybe you were wrong? It's not just the decrease in testing, since test positivity has d…
> test positivity has decreased from the peaks even as total test count plummeted. Where do you see that? Where I live that isn't the case and according to official data the pandemic has never ended: https://www.covid19.admin.ch/en/epidemiologic/test?epiRelDev... As recently as April the positivity ratio was as high as it was in December 2020 (~16%). I have no idea who these people are who get tested 10,000 times a w…
If those data don't show the end of the pandemic, then what would? Your confirmed deaths are around 1/100 of the death peak. Positivity fluctuates much less, in part because there's a feedback loop--authorities will test more if it gets too high (subject to resource availability), and less if it gets too low. It's well below the positivity peaks, though. In any case, if the plummeting death count were due primarily to plummeting testing, then we'd expect the test positivity to increase, and it definitely hasn't done that. I'm in the USA myself, with broadly similar trends.
> Governments were told by scientists that PCR testing has an FP rate of zero, so they just didn't build any processes to recognize the possibility or measure the error rate.
I don't know what the Swiss government did, but globally scientists certainly considered that possibility--for example, that's basically the point of all the papers comparing excess mortality against confirmed deaths. The agreement isn't perfect, but the trend is pretty clearly there.
> So? FPs are a problem regardless of when they occur or why.
Non-contamination false positives show up like an additive offset to the positive count, while contamination false positives show up more like a multiplicative scale. They're both bad, but the latter is usually less bad, since relative error is usually what matters.
> Nobody cares about detecting people who were infected months ago. Yet governments reacted to any positive test by assuming they were highly infectious and immediately forcibly quarantining the unlucky person who got it.
All governments that I dealt with were clearly aware that a positive PCR test didn't mean you were infectious now. For example, travel guidance generally permitted a recent (but not too recent) positive PCR test as an alternative to a very recent negative PCR test, since they knew that recovered patients might test PCR positive for a long time.
For people newly testing positive, governments didn't advise or mandate isolation because they thought the tests perfectly predicted whether a person was infectious now. They did so because those tests were the best tool available, and they judged the harm of missed isolation of infectious people to be greater than the harm of unnecessary isolation of non-infectious people. I agree that in many cases, that was a policy mistake. That problem is with the policy, though--the tests were performing exactly like any competent microbiologist would expect.
I'm not sure why your immunologist turned pale, since Ct cutoff around or slightly above 40 isn't unusual. For example, here's a pre-pandemic test for infectious salmon anemia virus that chose Ct = 42 in certain cases:
https://journals.sagepub.com/doi/10.1177/104063871102300102?...
In general, Ct values aren't comparable between different protocols. Sensitivity and specificity are judged from results on positive and negative controls, not from absolute Ct. There's no single best Ct; it's always a tradeoff between false negatives and false positives, and the weighting of that tradeoff varies with the intended use of the result.
> The Swiss government had a web page that stated point blank that PCR tests had no false positives at all.
That's clearly false. I don't think the American government said that, though they made other false absolute statements (if you get the vaccine then you definitely won't get sick, etc.). The consensus of the scientific literature told a much more cautious story, though.
It seems like your complaints are about the use of the PCR results, not the accuracy. If the PCR test correctly reports the presence of viral RNA, and based on that a patient is forced to isolate based on the x% chance they'd infect someone else, and you believe x is too low to justify that, then that's not a false positive; it's just a policy position that you disagree with.