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Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

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Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#111

Post by manmal »

solardev wrote: post #58
Kye wrote: post #28

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Jet Li famously turned down The Matrix because he was worried about what they might do with his motion capture in the future. Previous discussion of the topic right here on HN: https://news.ycombinator.com/item?id=27852017

It probably won't be long before algorithms can mocap just from the recorded footage and then transpose those movements to arbitrary 3D models :/ That doesn't take away from the beauty of martial arts though. You can have an exact definition of all the moves you'll ever do, but still spend decades refining them. For actors though... yeah I can see why they're worried

I’ve seen the new Indiana Jones last week, and found the (clearly) animated opening scenes quite unrealistic. There was constantly something wrong with Indy’s sudden movements and other tells. Felt more like a really good cutscene. And they did have mocap available for that. I don’t think you‘ll get believable virtual actors (outside of action scenes) without mocap anytime soon.

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#112

Post by innisfreehoney »

pseudalopex wrote: post #98
mrtksn wrote: post #34

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Everything measured and optimised for shallow goals goes into the gutter. As the analytics overtook decision making, the quality of everything declined sharply. IMHO, it's happening because we the humans optimize for proxy metrics which once were good as a proxy to the real thing but with the computer age they turned into shallow goals that end up destroying the real thing as the optimisation became too robust. Remov…

Goodhart's law and the McNamara fallacy.

Or if you want to get philosophical about it, reification. Which is something the Frankfurt School (despised by some as "Cultural Marxists") discussed with great depth and subtlety

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#113

Post by merth »

AlexandrB wrote: post #5

> “In that ground breaking AI proposal, they proposed that our background performers should be able to be scanned, get paid for one day’s pay, and their company should own that scan, their image, their likeness, and should be able to use it for the rest of eternity in any project they want with no consent and no compensation,” he said. “So if you think that’s a ground breaking proposal I suggest you think again.” I m…

well, alternative they will just create non-existing actors with generative AI. my guess in 50 years, almost everything will be extremely cheap including human labour. except land maybe?

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#114

Post by tiltowait »

Kye wrote: post #107
ryandrake wrote: post #99

Earlier quoted context omitted.

From an end-user's point of view, though, that's actually really great. I love Star Trek The Next Generation. They're never making any more than those seven glorious seasons. If I could subscribe to a streaming service that offered an infinite number of AI-produce believably-authentic episodes featuring the original characters, and plot that could plausibly have been real episodes, I'd subscribe in a heartbeat. I'd j…

Toss in the 100+ novels with a lower weight to account for the more spotty quality and you have another 5-6 seasons.

For anyone wondering where to start, this chart is helpful (if you can read it): https://www.thetrekcollective.com/p/trek-lit-reading-order.h...

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#115

Post by [deleted] »

Woberto wrote: post #95
gruez wrote: post #81

Earlier quoted context omitted.

>Its tar and feather territory if you ask me. Refusing to accept a deal is akin to acts of violence? I feel like the pro-union rhetoric is getting hyperbolic, and is detrimental to the quality of the discussion. If simply refusing to accept a deal is "tar and feather territory", then what do you call it when studios are literally covering union members in tar and feather? "tar feather (fr!) territory"? Rather than di…

I think you're vastly oversimplifying their stance as merely "refusing to accept a deal". If studios are waiting for writers to "start losing their apartments and losing their houses,"[1] that is a major negative impact to people's lives. [1] various sources, e.g. https://www.ign.com/articles/hollywood-studios-want-writers-...

[deleted]

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#116

Post by arrakeen »

ryandrake wrote: post #99
AlexandrB wrote: post #5

> “In that ground breaking AI proposal, they proposed that our background performers should be able to be scanned, get paid for one day’s pay, and their company should own that scan, their image, their likeness, and should be able to use it for the rest of eternity in any project they want with no consent and no compensation,” he said. “So if you think that’s a ground breaking proposal I suggest you think again.” I m…

From an end-user's point of view, though, that's actually really great. I love Star Trek The Next Generation. They're never making any more than those seven glorious seasons. If I could subscribe to a streaming service that offered an infinite number of AI-produce believably-authentic episodes featuring the original characters, and plot that could plausibly have been real episodes, I'd subscribe in a heartbeat. I'd j…

> Would I pay for an AI-based infinite album maker? You bet!

it sounds like you don't even like art

what exactly do you feel when you listen to music? what makes you want to listen to music? what drew you to rush and pink floyd in the first place? i ask because my subjective answers to those questions are diametrically opposed to some theoretical generative AI album maker

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#117

Post by robterrell »

Oarch wrote: post #38
saltminer wrote: post #36

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This was part of the plot of "Joan is Awful" (Black Mirror S06E01). I sorta expected some sort of AI proposal but I didn't think it would be so drastic, so soon. Then again, it might just be the tactic of asking for a mountain to get the hill you really want (I'm sure there's a name for this).

It's also a key plot point of The Congress (2013), the scanning process of the actress is even in the movie trailer.

"Looker" is a Michael Crichton film from 1981 that features actors getting scanned and replaced with cheaper & more compliant CGI equivalents.

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#118

Post by KerrAvon »

endisneigh wrote: post #37
anotherhue wrote: post #4

Unions are a critical counterbalance to the power of corporations. Hardly perfect, but we'll be sorry when they're gone.

Not really. Ironically the kind of people who frequent this forum will be the ones to end labor once and for all. Unions are only helpful with leverage. For now labor has inherent leverage as capital production fundamentally requires some labor. As AI increases productivity of certain individuals the amount (of people) of productive labor will become less, thus making unions ineffective.

Wild! And when it doesn't happen this way, are you -- presumably on the "productive" side -- gonna go Galt?

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#119

Post by yafbum »

endisneigh wrote: post #37
anotherhue wrote: post #4

Unions are a critical counterbalance to the power of corporations. Hardly perfect, but we'll be sorry when they're gone.

Not really. Ironically the kind of people who frequent this forum will be the ones to end labor once and for all. Unions are only helpful with leverage. For now labor has inherent leverage as capital production fundamentally requires some labor. As AI increases productivity of certain individuals the amount (of people) of productive labor will become less, thus making unions ineffective.

It's not clear that AI will be a productivity boost for writers of any more magnitude than the move from the typewriter to the computer word processor. It can improve productivity, but only marginally so, and without need to replace writers altogether. An AI is about as useful for screenwriting a complex show as a spell checker.

The kinds of productivity boosts that studios and streaming houses have already gotten from writers are much simpler and timeless - hire less writers per show, for shorter term contracts, don't pay them residuals based on the show's long-term success, and keep them in the dark about the value of their work by hiding viewership data so that they won't know when they do have leverage individually.

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#120

Post by endisneigh »

yafbum wrote: post #119
endisneigh wrote: post #37

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Not really. Ironically the kind of people who frequent this forum will be the ones to end labor once and for all. Unions are only helpful with leverage. For now labor has inherent leverage as capital production fundamentally requires some labor. As AI increases productivity of certain individuals the amount (of people) of productive labor will become less, thus making unions ineffective.

It's not clear that AI will be a productivity boost for writers of any more magnitude than the move from the typewriter to the computer word processor. It can improve productivity, but only marginally so, and without need to replace writers altogether. An AI is about as useful for screenwriting a complex show as a spell checker. The kinds of productivity boosts that studios and streaming houses have already gotten fr…

I don't know how you could possibly compare AI with the typewriter to word processor evolution.
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