Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood • Hacker News Board

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#91

Post by gruez » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 10:11 PM UTC

ohgodplsno wrote: post #80

ninth_ant wrote: post #65

Earlier quoted context omitted.

This not some dirty tactic, it is specifically how all breakdowns in employer/union negotiations go. Union withdraws their labour until their demands are met, employer doesn't agree until their demands are met. As time goes on, both lose money, both parties are betting the other party will compromise in a beneficial way before their side does. If you don't approve of this, you don't approve of unionization. Because t…

You seem to misunderstand what unionisation is. The current state of things has been reached as kind of a gentleman's agreement. If employers want to revert to life threatening solutions, unions will revert to life threatening solutions too. Sequestration, destruction, tarring, and other fun things. But then again, defenestration of a bunch of execs might just be the exact thing the world needs to put some fear back…

> You seem to misunderstand what unionisation is. The current state of things has been reached as kind of a gentleman's agreement. If employers want to revert to life threatening solutions, unions will revert to life threatening solutions too. Sequestration, destruction, tarring, and other fun things.

Weird, my definition of "unionization" is "workers bargaining collectively". It doesn't involve any veiled threats of violence.

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#92

Post by wwweston » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 10:11 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #5

> “In that ground breaking AI proposal, they proposed that our background performers should be able to be scanned, get paid for one day’s pay, and their company should own that scan, their image, their likeness, and should be able to use it for the rest of eternity in any project they want with no consent and no compensation,” he said. “So if you think that’s a ground breaking proposal I suggest you think again.” I m…

Not sure it's that groundbreaking since we've already effectively decided as a society this is exactly what we're going to do with art and writing and probably a whole bunch of other stuff.

And in general, we've long decided privileging capital is much more important than compensating labor.

I'm not saying this is right. I'm saying we didn't just cross this line. This is the logical extension of some trendlines we've been riding for a while.

If it feels uncomfortable, it's possible we should look back for the root of the mistake.

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#93

Post by p0pcult » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 10:12 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #34

monkeyodeath wrote: post #19

The business philosophy of "maximize shareholder value above all else" is going to eviscerate our society until there's nothing of quality left. Hollywood has always been a dirty and money-focused business, but it seems like the latest crop of execs are hellbent on entirely divorcing the creative enterprise from its human elements. Now studios are just exotic financial instruments that seek to turn "content" into sto…

Everything measured and optimised for shallow goals goes into the gutter. As the analytics overtook decision making, the quality of everything declined sharply. IMHO, it's happening because we the humans optimize for proxy metrics which once were good as a proxy to the real thing but with the computer age they turned into shallow goals that end up destroying the real thing as the optimisation became too robust. Remov…

[dead]

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#94

Post by 1shooner » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 10:13 PM UTC

CSMastermind wrote: post #79

Arrath wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given the explicit "we'll just wait for them to lose their housing" messaging from the Hollywood executives... Yeah, that was fuckin disgusting. Its tar and feather territory if you ask me. I'm in full support of this strike and I applaud the actors for getting in on it. Bring the studios to their knees if that's what it takes.

What's to stop the actors or writers from simply making their own content? It made sense to me when you had terrestrial television stations with actual monopolies over broadcast rights. But now with the internet they have many vectors to share and market their content. So you won't be on NBC or Netflix or whatever, so what, post it on Twitter and YouTube. If they move to alternative distribution platforms and the stu…

>What's to stop the actors or writers from simply making their own content?

At this point, I would think the union. I have a family member in Equity that couldn't play in his own productions because he couldn't afford to pay himself. Sounds like a joke, but it's true.

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#95

Post by Woberto » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 10:14 PM UTC

gruez wrote: post #81

Arrath wrote: post #54

Earlier quoted context omitted.

> Given the explicit "we'll just wait for them to lose their housing" messaging from the Hollywood executives... Yeah, that was fuckin disgusting. Its tar and feather territory if you ask me. I'm in full support of this strike and I applaud the actors for getting in on it. Bring the studios to their knees if that's what it takes.

>Its tar and feather territory if you ask me. Refusing to accept a deal is akin to acts of violence? I feel like the pro-union rhetoric is getting hyperbolic, and is detrimental to the quality of the discussion. If simply refusing to accept a deal is "tar and feather territory", then what do you call it when studios are literally covering union members in tar and feather? "tar feather (fr!) territory"? Rather than di…

I think you're vastly oversimplifying their stance as merely "refusing to accept a deal". If studios are waiting for writers to "start losing their apartments and losing their houses,"[1] that is a major negative impact to people's lives.

[1] various sources, e.g. https://www.ign.com/articles/hollywood-studios-want-writers-...

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#96

Post by goodbyesf » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 10:14 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #5

> “In that ground breaking AI proposal, they proposed that our background performers should be able to be scanned, get paid for one day’s pay, and their company should own that scan, their image, their likeness, and should be able to use it for the rest of eternity in any project they want with no consent and no compensation,” he said. “So if you think that’s a ground breaking proposal I suggest you think again.” I m…

Who would want to be an extra then? Aren't most extras people who want to break into the film business? If you are an extra for one movie and the studio owns your likeness forever, how will you get another job as an extra or a cast member? They wouldn't need you since they already have your likeness to use as they please in any film they want. I mean owning the your image within the movie is understandable. But owning your likeness which is transferable across films and mediums is rather amazing. I can't imagine extras are paid that much to begin with that it'll be worth it to sell their likeness for one days pay.

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#97

Post by [deleted] » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 10:15 PM UTC

eatsyourtacos wrote: post #60

monkeyodeath wrote: post #19

The business philosophy of "maximize shareholder value above all else" is going to eviscerate our society until there's nothing of quality left. Hollywood has always been a dirty and money-focused business, but it seems like the latest crop of execs are hellbent on entirely divorcing the creative enterprise from its human elements. Now studios are just exotic financial instruments that seek to turn "content" into sto…

Completely agree. And the worst part is that sentiment is used as a completely valid reason/excuse. "They are just doing what is legally required of them and maximizing shareholder value!!". People throw that out in there as if it's some inherent law of nature that can't be questioned. No- it's an intentionally created human construct by the rich & powerful to completely excuse them of any actions.

[deleted]

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#98

Post by pseudalopex » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 10:15 PM UTC

mrtksn wrote: post #34

monkeyodeath wrote: post #19

The business philosophy of "maximize shareholder value above all else" is going to eviscerate our society until there's nothing of quality left. Hollywood has always been a dirty and money-focused business, but it seems like the latest crop of execs are hellbent on entirely divorcing the creative enterprise from its human elements. Now studios are just exotic financial instruments that seek to turn "content" into sto…

Everything measured and optimised for shallow goals goes into the gutter. As the analytics overtook decision making, the quality of everything declined sharply. IMHO, it's happening because we the humans optimize for proxy metrics which once were good as a proxy to the real thing but with the computer age they turned into shallow goals that end up destroying the real thing as the optimisation became too robust. Remov…

Goodhart's law and the McNamara fallacy.

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#99

Post by ryandrake » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 10:15 PM UTC

AlexandrB wrote: post #5

> “In that ground breaking AI proposal, they proposed that our background performers should be able to be scanned, get paid for one day’s pay, and their company should own that scan, their image, their likeness, and should be able to use it for the rest of eternity in any project they want with no consent and no compensation,” he said. “So if you think that’s a ground breaking proposal I suggest you think again.” I m…

From an end-user's point of view, though, that's actually really great.

I love Star Trek The Next Generation. They're never making any more than those seven glorious seasons. If I could subscribe to a streaming service that offered an infinite number of AI-produce believably-authentic episodes featuring the original characters, and plot that could plausibly have been real episodes, I'd subscribe in a heartbeat. I'd just watch that and skip the rest of what passes for TV today.

I'd love for that subscription money to go to the original cast and crew as royalties, instead of buying the president of Paramount a seventh house. But I don't have a choice about that.

Pink Floyd [maybe!], Yes, Rush, they're never making any more music. Would I pay for an AI-based infinite album maker? You bet!

Re: Actors union will join writers on strike, shutting down Hollywood

#100

Post by dkh » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 10:16 PM UTC

thefounder wrote: post #82

bwestergard wrote: post #20

A refreshing show of solidarity between groups of workers whose interests clearly align. If they call for the public to cancel subscriptions, I'll do it.

Well, to be honest we've been served a lot of trash content before the strike for various reasons so I'm not sure how our interests and worker's interests align here.

People have been continuingly trying to say "content is garbage, the writers on strike weren't any good anyway" and such throughout this whole ordeal. But there's a lot of content for a reason--we each have our preferences. What one person loves, someone else thinks is shit. Most content will not be for everyone. This is fine.

But are you actually saying that there is nothing out there that you really enjoy? That 100% of it across the board is terrible? And are you willing to say that most other people feel the same way? There is nothing out there for anyone?

If there is anything you do like, then you want to support the workers because it gets made the same way as the stuff you don't like, and this is by design.

Unless, of course, you're expecting everything to be Game of Thrones or some other huge show that most people seemed to enjoy simultaneously. In that case, you should be even more on board, because those are hard to come by, they are expensive, risky, and require all the talent available to them.