A relatively small amount of force applied at just the right place • Hacker News Board

Re: A relatively small amount of force applied at just the right place

#21

Post by sonicshadow » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:20 PM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #16

sonicshadow wrote: post #7

> If Bell Labs’ scientists invented the transistor, the laser, Unix, information theory, etc, then YC’s “economic research scientists” invented OpenAI, Stripe, AirBnB, Instacart, Doordash, Dropbox, Reddit, and many more. Interesting, comparing core scientific research and output by Bell Labs to just techi-ifying existing industries and not really adding much new value (other than OpenAI).

Yeah I think there is a lot of sentiment that these ideas/founders are somehow unique and that if those people didn't do anything with those ideas then something like Airbnb or Reddit or Dropbox wouldn't have ever happened. I think people need to be realistic - none of those are particularly ground breaking ideas, as evidenced by the fact that there are countless competitors and in many cases even predecessors that w…

Until I joined HN I wasn't aware that all these tech companies deserve the same rareified air as core scientific research. The real world barely thinks about Airbnb and how it's "revolutionized the world for a narrow slice of remote tech workers that want to rent a house in Mexico for a month".

Re: A relatively small amount of force applied at just the right place

#22

Post by jrvarela56 » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:23 PM UTC

adventured wrote: post #20

jrvarela56 wrote: post #13

Earlier quoted context omitted.

Funny how you just picked out OpenAI, maybe Stripe and the others create value too?

OpenAI shook the planet with something fairly groundbreaking. It's closer to the iPhone in the rapid impact it had, moving a lot faster than the iPhone did, than the extension of a payment processor made easier (which is what Stripe is). Stripe, Airbnb, Doordash, Uber etc. They're services that add value by extending existing concepts to the Internet or in a slightly better way. There's nothing revolutionary or earth…

yeah sure, they just packaged Google's research and put it behind an API

you can make comments like this for just about any product taken to market and downplay the value of the making it mass market, affordable, usable, etc

Re: A relatively small amount of force applied at just the right place

#23

Post by tqi » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:26 PM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #8

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #3

It sounds good. But it kind of reminds me of High School Football or Basketball Players (choose a high paying professional sport). Who bank their whole future on focusing on one thing that is Super-Low-Percentage-Of-Success-High-Paying-Job. How many football players skip their education, and then DON'T make it? Where do they end up. Now, think Joe Blow Computer Science Major, is NOT going to be a Millionaire, but a d…

There are often posts on here showing that it is better to spend say 10 or even 5 years doing 35-40 hour weeks at a FAANG where your total comp will end up being $2-5,000,000 over that time, than risk it at a startup working 80+ hour weeks for a chance at the big time but ultimately leave with nothing apart from exhaustion and an unheard-of failed startup on your resume. I think there is a lot of truth in that. And y…

The economics of the Bay Area really distorts things. If you make 2M over 10 years, you will almost certainly have enough money to live a good life (never go hungry, able to travel, etc), but you will absolutely not have enough to buy a house or start a family. I think this realization is what drives folks to take a third path, which is starting at established Big Tech companies before moving to early stage startups.

Re: A relatively small amount of force applied at just the right place

#24

Post by btilly » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:28 PM UTC

FrustratedMonky wrote: post #3

It sounds good. But it kind of reminds me of High School Football or Basketball Players (choose a high paying professional sport). Who bank their whole future on focusing on one thing that is Super-Low-Percentage-Of-Success-High-Paying-Job. How many football players skip their education, and then DON'T make it? Where do they end up. Now, think Joe Blow Computer Science Major, is NOT going to be a Millionaire, but a d…

The hit rate in the article is almost 1/4. That's a lot better than high school sports.

The fallback if you don't succeed is called "programmer". And no, programmers don't need college degrees if they have real world experience. I've known a lot of very successful programmers with no college degree at all.

Re: A relatively small amount of force applied at just the right place

#25

Post by scrozier » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:32 PM UTC

sonicshadow wrote: post #7

> If Bell Labs’ scientists invented the transistor, the laser, Unix, information theory, etc, then YC’s “economic research scientists” invented OpenAI, Stripe, AirBnB, Instacart, Doordash, Dropbox, Reddit, and many more. Interesting, comparing core scientific research and output by Bell Labs to just techi-ifying existing industries and not really adding much new value (other than OpenAI).

lol...I came to post this EXACTLY. Having been in, or on the periphery of, the startup world for a long time (ending about ten years ago), I've come to see it as pretty vapid, unimaginative, and even downright destructive. If a bunch of young-ish guys (and a few women) with elite upbringings want to have an incestuous little money party, well, good on them, I guess. But all the eloquent words trying to obscure the theme of "I want to make a whole bunch of money" is wearing thin on me.

Re: A relatively small amount of force applied at just the right place

#26

Post by prions » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:32 PM UTC

Comparing YC to Bell Labs, which had deep ties to academia, misses the entire philosophy of YC and Paul Graham. He constantly talks about academia being a hive of orthodoxy, and positions "smart people" as those who can think around it.

By his logic, Bell Labs would be one of the largest hives of orthodox thinking to ever exist, and its the complete antithesis of vc heterodox thought

Re: A relatively small amount of force applied at just the right place

#27

Post by sonicshadow » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:33 PM UTC

tqi wrote: post #23

mattlondon wrote: post #8

Earlier quoted context omitted.

There are often posts on here showing that it is better to spend say 10 or even 5 years doing 35-40 hour weeks at a FAANG where your total comp will end up being $2-5,000,000 over that time, than risk it at a startup working 80+ hour weeks for a chance at the big time but ultimately leave with nothing apart from exhaustion and an unheard-of failed startup on your resume. I think there is a lot of truth in that. And y…

The economics of the Bay Area really distorts things. If you make 2M over 10 years, you will almost certainly have enough money to live a good life (never go hungry, able to travel, etc), but you will absolutely not have enough to buy a house or start a family. I think this realization is what drives folks to take a third path, which is starting at established Big Tech companies before moving to early stage startups.

I almost fell for the trap a few years ago, someone was trying to convince me that making 200k in the Bay Area for 5 years and then "retiring" back to my mid-size city was far more profitable than just staying put near my family and friends and making a "measly" half of that, in a place where houses costs a third as much and the lifestyle is healthier.

Re: A relatively small amount of force applied at just the right place

#28

Post by anileated » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:36 PM UTC

brigadier132 wrote: post #10

anileated wrote: post #5

I want to start a company, but will not. The main reason why the existence of YC does not change this is because I know my idea, even if I go all in, does not promise explosive growth on par with Airbnbs of this world, and therefore is not attractive to investment. It does have the potential to eventually become a lifestyle business, though, which would be good enough for me. Unfortunately, I guess it will have to wa…

Why do you need investment? If you can build it on your own and there is a real niche with people willing to pay money for what you build then you can make a lot of money as an individual.

I can’t because I need money to survive, and this will not provide that money for months until the thing is written, deployed, and has an established enough paying user base… And good luck me not getting seriously ill or get affected by whatever calamity in meantime!

Re: A relatively small amount of force applied at just the right place

#29

Post by efficax » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:42 PM UTC

sonicshadow wrote: post #7

> If Bell Labs’ scientists invented the transistor, the laser, Unix, information theory, etc, then YC’s “economic research scientists” invented OpenAI, Stripe, AirBnB, Instacart, Doordash, Dropbox, Reddit, and many more. Interesting, comparing core scientific research and output by Bell Labs to just techi-ifying existing industries and not really adding much new value (other than OpenAI).

lol, imagine telling Bill Shockley: "oh, you invented the transistor? well I built an iPhone app that dispatches a pizza order". The only thing here even close to a real invention is OpenAI and even they didn't invent the core tech (neural nets, transformers, linear regression, gpu farms) but just threw a bunch of money at applying it in a new way.

Re: A relatively small amount of force applied at just the right place

#30

Post by adventured » Thu, Jul 13, 2023, 5:44 PM UTC

mattlondon wrote: post #16

sonicshadow wrote: post #7

> If Bell Labs’ scientists invented the transistor, the laser, Unix, information theory, etc, then YC’s “economic research scientists” invented OpenAI, Stripe, AirBnB, Instacart, Doordash, Dropbox, Reddit, and many more. Interesting, comparing core scientific research and output by Bell Labs to just techi-ifying existing industries and not really adding much new value (other than OpenAI).

Yeah I think there is a lot of sentiment that these ideas/founders are somehow unique and that if those people didn't do anything with those ideas then something like Airbnb or Reddit or Dropbox wouldn't have ever happened. I think people need to be realistic - none of those are particularly ground breaking ideas, as evidenced by the fact that there are countless competitors and in many cases even predecessors that w…

> These people just happened to be born to the right parents in the right country at the right time to have the privilege to have someone throw money at a not very original idea that could have been anyone's

You elaborated precisely that not just anyone could have implemented the ideas, which is in fact the single most important thing. Having an idea is not very meaningful, as nearly all ideas are close to worthless. It's a common mistake to think ideas are what have a lot of value.

The thing that primarily matters is who can and or is willing to act on an idea, who can bring it into existence (whether in a tangible sense of a product/service, or in terms of reaching a community to spread an idea (such as an idea in the field of published science)).

Those ideas only come into existence as a thing because some people were in the right place at the right time to make them happen and acted on it (with several other critical factors being required, some of which you listed). Not just anybody can bring an idea to fruition; literally millions of Internet users could easily have the idea for a subscription Internet-based Photoshop (circa 10-15 years ago) - now try making it a thing and try making it successful.